The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 24, 2019, 04:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,013
NFHS: LGP or not? PC or block?

1) Turnover by Team B near division line. A1 gathers the ball and heads upcourt. Immediately after A1 gets control, B1, 10 feet away and in front of A1, is facing A1. B1, turns away from A1 and sprints to get back on defense. A1 is slow while B1 is fast. B1, facing away from A1 the entire time he was sprinting back, gets to the low defensive block, stops, and is still facing away from A1, with his back to A1. A1 continues his fast-break and plows into the back of B1. Ruling?

2) Same play except B1 never faced A1. Ruling?



Side note: When we discuss Legal Guarding Position, does distance matter? For example, A1 is guarding B1. A1 is 30 feet away from B1 and facing B1. Is A1 considered to be in legal guarding position?
__________________
If some rules are never enforced, then why do they exist?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 24, 2019, 05:05pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
For The Good Of The Cause ...

4-23: Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an
offensive opponent. There is no minimum distance required between the
guard and opponent, but the maximum is 6 feet when closely guarded.
Every player is entitled to a spot on the playing court provided such player
gets there first without illegally contacting an opponent. A player who
extends an arm, shoulder, hip or leg into the path of an opponent is not
considered to have a legal position if contact occurs.
ART. 2 To obtain an initial legal guarding position:
a. The guard must have both feet touching the playing court.
b. The front of the guard’s torso must be facing the opponent.
ART. 3 After the initial legal guarding position is obtained:
a. The guard may have one or both feet on the playing court or be
airborne, provided he/she has inbound status.
b. The guard is not required to continue facing the opponent.
c. The guard may move laterally or obliquely to maintain position, -
provided it is not toward the opponent when contact occurs.
d. The guard may raise hands or jump within his/her own vertical
plane.
e. The guard may turn or duck to absorb the shock of imminent
contact.
ART. 4 Guarding an opponent with the ball or a stationary opponent -
without the ball:
a. No time or distance is required to obtain an initial legal position.
b. If the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard must have
obtained legal position before the opponent left the floor.
ART. 5 Guarding a moving opponent without the ball:
a. Time and distance are factors required to obtain an initial legal
position.
b. The guard must give the opponent the time and/or distance to avoid
contact.
c. The distance need not be more than two strides.
d. If the opponent is airborne, the guard must have obtained legal
position before the opponent left the floor.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 24, 2019, 05:29pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
1) Turnover by Team B near division line. A1 gathers the ball and heads upcourt. Immediately after A1 gets control, B1, 10 feet away and in front of A1, is facing A1. B1, turns away from A1 and sprints to get back on defense. A1 is slow while B1 is fast. B1, facing away from A1 the entire time he was sprinting back, gets to the low defensive block, stops, and is still facing away from A1, with his back to A1. A1 continues his fast-break and plows into the back of B1. Ruling?

2) Same play except B1 never faced A1. Ruling?



Side note: When we discuss Legal Guarding Position, does distance matter? For example, A1 is guarding B1. A1 is 30 feet away from B1 and facing B1. Is A1 considered to be in legal guarding position?

NFHS Basketball Rules:

Play #1: B1 Obtained a LGP and moved legally to maintain it. PCF by A1.

Play #2: B1 set a legal moving screen. PCF by A1.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 24, 2019, 08:01pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Side note: When we discuss Legal Guarding Position, does distance matter? For example, A1 is guarding B1. A1 is 30 feet away from B1 and facing B1. Is A1 considered to be in legal guarding position?
By rule, distance doesn't matter. In practice, the farther away* B1 is from A1, the tougher it is to observe the initial legal guarding position.

(Amended: From 0' - 3', the farther, the easier. Form 3'-6', it's flat. From 6'+, the farther, the harder. Yes, I mean those distances exactly.)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 25, 2019, 12:29am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Side note: When we discuss Legal Guarding Position, does distance matter? For example, A1 is guarding B1. A1 is 30 feet away from B1 and facing B1. Is A1 considered to be in legal guarding position?
Distance does not matter. However, A1 must also be in B1's path. Example. B1 at the top of the key driving straight down the middle. A1 in the corner (30' away) facing B1. A1 does not have LGP. If A1 were in the middle of the lane with B1 heading at A1 from 30' away, A1 would have had LGP.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 25, 2019, 12:23pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
Into The Defender's Back ...

Regarding a defender facing ball handler (with a dash of torso language), I'd like to change this up a little, hopefully making it simpler.

A1 receives a pass and fakes a shot from behind the three point arc. The fake gets B1 (A1's defender) in the air, and A1 dribbles past B1 into the lane area. Defender B2, who was standing on the block in a zone defense, believing A1 shot the ball, turns to face the basket (never facing A1) expecting to get a possible rebound of A1's faked shot attempt. A1 plows into the back of a stationary B2, knocking B2 down.

I've got a player control foul on A1, but I'm not sure why.

Am I correct, and why, or why not?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Feb 25, 2019 at 01:27pm.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 25, 2019, 12:33pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Regarding a defender facing ball handler (with a dash of torso language), I'd like to change this up a little, hopefully making it simpler.

A1 receives a pass and fakes a shot from behind the three point arc. The fake gets B1 (A1's defender) in the air, and A1 dribbles past B1 into the lane area. Defender B2, who was standing on the block in a zone defense, believing A1 shot the ball, turns to face the basket (never facing A1) expecting to get a possible rebound of A1's faked shot attempt. A1 plows into the back of a stationary B2, knocking B2 down.

I've got a player control foul on A1, but I'm not sure why.

Am I correct, and why, or why not?
B2 legally got to a spot and was stationary when he was displaced by A1, who had the ball.

LGP allows Bx to be moving when contact and still have the foul be on A1. Since B2 wasn't moving in your play, that's not relevant to the decision.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 25, 2019, 12:55pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
Purpose Of Legal Guarding Position ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
B2 legally got to a spot and was stationary when he was displaced by A1, who had the ball. LGP allows Bx to be moving when contact and still have the foul be on A1. Since B2 wasn't moving in your play, that's not relevant to the decision.
So legal guarding position allows some movement by the defense. With no movement, legal guarding position becomes irrelevant.

Thanks.

Some probably believe that the purpose of legal guarding position is to only put limitations on the defender, when in actuality, legal guarding position actually allows the defender to move in certain ways just as much as it limits the movements of the defender.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 25, 2019, 01:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Regarding a defender facing ball handler (with a dash of torso language), I'd like to change this up a little, hopefully making it simpler.

A1 receives a pass and fakes a shot from behind the three point arc. The fake gets B1 (A1's defender) in the air, and A1 dribbles past B1 into the lane area. Defender B2, who was standing on the block in a zone defense, believing A1 shot the ball, turns to face the basket (never facing A1) expecting to get a possible rebound of A1's faked shot attempt. A1 plows into the back of a stationary B2, knocking B2 down.

I've got a player control foul on A1, but I'm not sure why.

Am I correct, and why, or why not?
Good example, better than mine although I just witnessed mine last week.

If going by definition of charging, you are correct with a PCF in your case.

One thing many tend to forget is that "torso" means trunk of the body. This includes the back, not necessarily just the front.
__________________
If some rules are never enforced, then why do they exist?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 25, 2019, 01:25pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
The Gaddi Torso (Hellenistic Sculpture, 2nd Century BCE) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
... "torso" means trunk of the body. This includes the back, not necessarily just the front.
Good point. Thanks.

__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FG block phansen Football 2 Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:34am
Cut block hawkishowl20 Football 20 Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:38pm
NFHS "Low Block" on defense ljd5521 Football 8 Sun Sep 30, 2007 08:12am
difference between cut block and chop block ase Football 7 Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:23am
NEW - 2003 NFHS Football Rule Changes (as written by the NFHS Rules Committee) KWH Football 27 Tue Jan 21, 2003 11:30am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:48am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1