PC Foul called - Lowering the shoulder or not LGP (Video)

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rbruno

Well I understand the not having LGP theory. But if the defense is running along side someone not in LGP and the offensive player wards off or makes contact with his arm/hand etc. I have a PCF which is what it looked like in this video.

The arm only came out after the initial contact with shoulder to torso. It was already a defensive foul before the arm came out. The arm subsequently being extended doesn't change it to a PCF.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The arm only came out after the initial contact with shoulder to torso. It was already a defensive foul before the arm came out. The arm subsequently being extended doesn't change it to a PCF.

Yeah, to those that just call a block automatically. This level honestly wants more charges called and if it is a coin flip, I am calling a charge. I think it is a charge anyway because the defender had LGP and took the contact in the chest. I honestly cannot even believe this is a debate.

Peace

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

if it is a coin flip, I am calling a charge. I think it is a charge anyway because the defender had LGP and took the contact in the chest. I honestly cannot even believe this is a debate.

Peace

I am in this camp.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yeah, to those that just call a block automatically. This level honestly wants more charges called and if it is a coin flip, I am calling a charge. I think it is a charge anyway because the defender had LGP and took the contact in the chest. I honestly cannot even believe this is a debate.

Peace

IMO, the defender did not have LGP....2 feet down, in the path, facing. He did at one point but lost it for a while and never reobtained it. It is not an obvious result either way. You can't honestly and intelligently say this isn't a debatable point. That IS the whole point of this play.

[griblets]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

IMO, the defender did not have LGP....2 feet down, in the path, facing.

My rule book shows only two requirements: 2 feet touching the court, and guard's torso facing opponent. Nothing about "in the path."

Seems to me LGP was obtained outside the 3-point line at the beginning of the video.

[bob jenkins]

From the NCAA rules book (emphasis added; HS is different):

Section 17. Guarding
Art. 1. Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an
offensive opponent. The guarding position shall be initially established and then
maintained inbounds on the playing court.

[LRZ]

In NCAA-M, is a defender with LGP who moves laterally still legal?

[deecee]

Originally Posted by LRZ

In NCAA-M, is a defender with LGP who moves laterally still legal?

Yes. The principles are no different. One can, and needs to maintain guarding position otherwise "being set" would be a requirement. Hint: It isn't.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by griblets

My rule book shows only two requirements: 2 feet touching the court, and guard's torso facing opponent. Nothing about "in the path."

Seems to me LGP was obtained outside the 3-point line at the beginning of the video.

You're skipping part of the rule. It is there. If you think about the implications of what you think the rule is you get some really silly results.

NFHS Rule 4

NFHS Rule 4, SECTION 23 GUARDING
ART. 1 . . . Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent.

LGP is a special case of the more general "guarding". LGP doesn't replace the requirements of "Guarding", it just adds to it and grants additional rights along with it.

You're not the first to make that mistake.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You're skipping part of the rule. It is there. If you think about the implications of what you think the rule is you get some really silly results.

NFHS Rule 4


LGP is a special case of the more general "guarding". LGP doesn't replace the requirements of "Guarding", it just adds to it and grants additional rights along with it.

You're not the first to make that mistake.

How is LGP maintained and when is it lost?

I see this play as a PC foul all day every day.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by Rich

How is LGP maintained and when is it lost?

I see this play as a PC foul all day every day.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I agree this is a PC or no call depending on your brand. No way is this a block.

I think the argument that LGP is lost and needs to be regained (not how I see it) is that LGP is an extension of guarding, to be guarding you have to be in the path, so they are deeming a some point in the drive the defense is not in the path and no requires to get back to a guarding and LGP position to get the benefit of either.

The question I would have is the ambiguity of path. Defense can be attempting to do different things when guarding (shading, containing, pressuring, funneling, etc to the ball carrier) some defenses are trying to stay between their player and basket others are trying to pressure them to a specfic spot, etc. All of these I would consider guarding. All of them require different positions and cutting off different directions and path(s). The direction the ball handler is going is one path, but the path to basket is a different path, if we want to get into some language issues a path doesn't have to be straight. See what I'm saying. If the player is between the ball carrier and basket, is defending the ball, and meets LGP i'm good.