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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 07, 2019, 02:08pm
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I've worked for supervisors who say never to call them unless it's an emergency situation. I've worked for supervisors who say never to text them, only email them. I've worked for supervisor who have said never to ask them about your schedule or why you are or aren't getting games. I've worked for supervisors who contact you before putting you into a last minute assignment and others who expect you take an assignment the morning of if you are not blocked out.

It's all part of the business to navigate the nuances, quirks, and personalities of those who assign us games.
Definitely. I don't have a huge problem with it, as this is a hobby for me as well and I have no problem telling an assignor I won't work a game because I want to be with my family or am swamped at work. I get it. But at the end of the day, we're losing people and I know a lot of guys are pretty dismayed at the lack of feedback that we've received this year. It's hard to get better by only watching yourself on film and not getting any help from the people who actually assign the games on what they would want to see out of you.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 07, 2019, 02:18pm
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Originally Posted by CJP View Post
Perhaps limiting the amount of varsity games an official can work per week can have a positive effect on sportsmanship and "new" official retention. This of course would only be possible where there are enough officials to cover games. Local governing bodies can decide. I have a problem with officials working 4-5 nights per week and new guys (with potential) are not advancing. I limit my nights to 3 per week and I think that is plenty.
How would limiting how much independent contractors can work fix sportsmanship?

You're free to limit how many nights you want to work, and other officials are allowed to work 7 nights/week if that's what they want and can get. Officiating is a capitalistic business.

(In South Carolina the state office books all varsity assignments and we are limited to 2/week, but 95% of games here are on Tuesdays and Fridays so it doesn't really matter.)
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 07, 2019, 02:29pm
CJP CJP is offline
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
How would limiting how much independent contractors can work fix sportsmanship?

You're free to limit how many nights you want to work, and other officials are allowed to work 7 nights/week if that's what they want and can get. Officiating is a capitalistic business.

(In South Carolina the state office books all varsity assignments and we are limited to 2/week, but 95% of games here are on Tuesdays and Fridays so it doesn't really matter.)
My logic is that it will help combat the ol' "you will never work here again" attitude if officials are more strict with coaches and players. If an official is worried about not getting games because he addresses poor sportsmanship, then he is probably wants to be working 4-5 nights per week. When coaches are allowed to say and do whatever they want on the sideline, it pours into the crowd and onto the floor.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 07, 2019, 03:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJP View Post
My logic is that it will help combat the ol' "you will never work here again" attitude if officials are more strict with coaches and players. If an official is worried about not getting games because he addresses poor sportsmanship, then he is probably wants to be working 4-5 nights per week. When coaches are allowed to say and do whatever they want on the sideline, it pours into the crowd and onto the floor.
OK???

How is that going to prevent that? I do not work in a system where a coach has much say over who works their games. They might complain to their conference assignor, but they have no say over tournaments, non-conference games or showcases that take place.

And if they say something like that to you, T them up or ignore them. Who cares what a coach says to you when they do not control such an event anyway?

Peace
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 07, 2019, 03:43pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
OK???

How is that going to prevent that? I do not work in a system where a coach has much say over who works their games. They might complain to their conference assignor, but they have no say over tournaments, non-conference games or showcases that take place.

And if they say something like that to you, T them up or ignore them. Who cares what a coach says to you when they do not control such an event anyway?

Peace
I don't have an assignor. Neither do many of my peers. It is possible to make the wrong coach upset and not get contracts. I think even having the perception that this can happen will deter a brown nosing official from addressing bad behavior. This is not a one size fits all solution. Even if it is a possible solution. It is clear that there are shortages of officials in some areas partly due to poor sportsmanship. Whatever is going on in these areas is not working and a change is due.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 07, 2019, 04:05pm
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Don't worry, pretty soon you'll be seeing more older, lower level college officials doing more HS games as NCAA Men's is in a full court press to get rid of older officials. As these older officials start working fewer Power 6 conference games and more mid-major and D2 games, it will start pushing other older officials below them either out of officiating or back down the ladder.

I got my first D3 contract at 44, D1 at 45, and D2 at 50. That's not going to be happening anymore.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 07, 2019, 05:19pm
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Originally Posted by CJP View Post
I don't have an assignor. Neither do many of my peers. It is possible to make the wrong coach upset and not get contracts. I think even having the perception that this can happen will deter a brown nosing official from addressing bad behavior. This is not a one size fits all solution. Even if it is a possible solution. It is clear that there are shortages of officials in some areas partly due to poor sportsmanship. Whatever is going on in these areas is not working and a change is due.
Well, I do. Most of Illinois does at this time. And this is not an issue with many conferences. I know assignors that might not put officials in bad situations on purpose. But I know assignors that are not preventing certain officials to go to certain schools. And in those places that have assignors, that does not solve this issue you suggested it would. And I do not know how the NF controls any of that at all. The NF does not assign anything in states.

Actually, I think there are more issues related to a shortage. They found that out when they asked officials in our state that there were other issues.

Peace
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 07, 2019, 05:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I've worked for supervisors who say never to call them unless it's an emergency situation. I've worked for supervisors who say never to text them, only email them. I've worked for supervisors who have said never to ask them about your schedule or why you are or aren't getting games. I've worked for supervisors who contact you before putting you into a last minute assignment and others who expect you take an assignment the morning of if you are not blocked out.

It's all part of the business to navigate the nuances, quirks, and personalities of those who assign us games.
I am not a phone person. I am an email person. I have in my email signature "Phone for emergencies only. Email will typically get a quicker response."

And yet people call. During my current ice storm, the only emergencies I have are filling games on Saturday and Monday (which are very popular right now) -- and yet I had someone call about a track officiating date in 2020. I work a day job, too. I have other things to take care of. People just don't get it. Or think that anything involving them is an emergency.

Unless I recognize the number, it rolls to voice mail these days. I answer, usually by email, when I can.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 08, 2019, 10:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
It's all part of the business to navigate the nuances, quirks, and personalities of those who assign us games.
That is the key to all of this. I worked with someone last night that claimed he was upset with an assignor because he was getting off a lower level game to work a varsity game. He was complaining that the assignor wanted him to find a replacement for his he was getting off the sophomore game for and said the assignor should find a replacement for the game on his own. Well, that is not likely to help that official in the long run and he is not someone that is a necessity to that assignor (not a state final guy or a sectional guy in the playoffs). Clearly, this is one of those things that with the right person, might put you at the bottom of the list if you cannot handle their requests. This guy thought he was in the right (and still does) but I told him that this particular assignor is likely old school and feels that is the way you should do when you are moving up. The official felt that because we use Arbiter, we should not have to do that in any way.

The bottom line, there really is no right or wrong on what should be done, except the assignor sets the parameters. And if you want to continue to work for them, you likely are going to have to follow their little rules or standards.

Peace
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 08, 2019, 11:00am
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
That is the key to all of this. I worked with someone last night that claimed he was upset with an assignor because he was getting off a lower level game to work a varsity game. He was complaining that the assignor wanted him to find a replacement for his he was getting off the sophomore game for and said the assignor should find a replacement for the game on his own. Well, that is not likely to help that official in the long run and he is not someone that is a necessity to that assignor (not a state final guy or a sectional guy in the playoffs). Clearly, this is one of those things that with the right person, might put you at the bottom of the list if you cannot handle their requests. This guy thought he was in the right (and still does) but I told him that this particular assignor is likely old school and feels that is the way you should do when you are moving up. The official felt that because we use Arbiter, we should not have to do that in any way.

The bottom line, there really is no right or wrong on what should be done, except the assignor sets the parameters. And if you want to continue to work for them, you likely are going to have to follow their little rules or standards.

Peace
Last season a D3 supervisor called me at 11:00pm at night to work a game for him the next evening, when I already had a JuCo game scheduled for another assignor. He said b/c his was a higher level game he expected me to take his game.

I couldn't get in touch with my JuCo assignor until the next morning, and he told me would release me but I needed to find a replacement. Luckily one of my HS assignors worked with me in 2 college conferences (including the JuCo) and he released one his officials (also in the JuCo conference) from a HS game to fill in for me.

Expectations and relationships drove that whole situation.
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Last edited by Raymond; Fri Feb 08, 2019 at 11:07am.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 08, 2019, 11:50am
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Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Last season a D3 supervisor called me at 11:00pm at night to work a game for him the next evening, when I already had a JuCo game scheduled for another assignor. He said b/c his was a higher level game he expected me to take his game.

I couldn't get in touch with my JuCo assignor until the next morning, and he told me would release me but I needed to find a replacement. Luckily one of my HS assignors worked with me in 2 college conferences (including the JuCo) and he released one his officials (also in the JuCo conference) from a HS game to fill in for me.

Expectations and relationships drove that whole situation.
Interesting...what would have happened if your JuCo assigner decided to be stubborn and not release or you couldn't find a replacement? Seems like a no-win situation for you.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 08, 2019, 12:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Last season a D3 supervisor called me at 11:00pm at night to work a game for him the next evening, when I already had a JuCo game scheduled for another assignor. He said b/c his was a higher level game he expected me to take his game.

I couldn't get in touch with my JuCo assignor until the next morning, and he told me would release me but I needed to find a replacement. Luckily one of my HS assignors worked with me in 2 college conferences (including the JuCo) and he released one his officials (also in the JuCo conference) from a HS game to fill in for me.

Expectations and relationships drove that whole situation.
Were you blocked on the D3 assigner's calendar? I've been called before and asked "Why are you blocked?" for a certain day where an assigner needs someone. Pisses me off because it's not really an assigner's business why my schedule is blocked. Call someone that's open.

And I know D3 is considered a higher level than JuCo, but having officiated both I didn't really notice any difference in the levels of play. The pay was the biggest difference but even that wasn't hugely significant.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 08, 2019, 01:54pm
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Were you blocked on the D3 assigner's calendar? I've been called before and asked "Why are you blocked?" for a certain day where an assigner needs someone. Pisses me off because it's not really an assigner's business why my schedule is blocked. Call someone that's open.

And I know D3 is considered a higher level than JuCo, but having officiated both I didn't really notice any difference in the levels of play. The pay was the biggest difference but even that wasn't hugely significant.
I rarely block out a higher level supervisor when I have a lower level game. And in this case, the D3 game was 9 miles from my house, which is the primary reason he called on me.

D3 teams are a lot more disciplined and the basketball is better, though JuCo teams may have athletes that are just as good or better than D3 teams. There is a reason those players are in JuCo. I'll take a D3 game over a JuCo game 7 days/week.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 08, 2019, 01:58pm
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Originally Posted by scrounge View Post
Interesting...what would have happened if your JuCo assigner decided to be stubborn and not release or you couldn't find a replacement? Seems like a no-win situation for you.
Fortunately I didn't have to find out. The JuCo supervisor was a multi-conference D1 official when he was on the floor, so he was understanding of my plight. Unfortunately he lost the JuCo this season, but he still has a D2 conference, but none of those schools are in reasonable driving distance for me.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 08, 2019, 01:59pm
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That's When I Beat My Wife ...

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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
"Why are you blocked?"
"That's when I buy my crack cocaine."

"That's when I call my college basketball bets into my bookie."

"That's when I throw my single use plastic bags into the ocean, and watch the sea turtles eat them."

Probably better to say a nicer version of, "That's none of your damn business".
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Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Feb 08, 2019 at 02:15pm.
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