FT Correctable Error Question.

[cozzmokramer]

Heres the situation:

Team A fouls Team B which puts Team B in the double bonus. Ref tells players it will be 'two shots'. Team B shoots and misses the 1st FT, but a few players evidently forgot it was a two shot foul. This leads to a scramble to get the rebound. Team B gets the offensive rebound and immediately scores it with a foul called on Team A.

Team A's coach brings to the refs attention that it was supposed to be a two shot foul. Refs huddle and decide it's a correctable error. They award the two points to Team B and the foul on Team A. Then also lets Team B shoot the free throw that wasn't initially awarded.

So if the ball was not supposed to ever be live, how can they count the basket? Also, team A's coach made the point that some players didn't play the missed free throw because they knew it was two shots, while others were playing it 'live' (wrongly), how is that fair to punish the players who played it as instructed by the ref?

Was this the right call? Thanks for any help.

[Raymond]

Another correctable error solution where a team gets disadvantaged due to a failure of the officials to properly do their job. I'm sure someone will come along and say this is somehow the fault of the coaches that the situation arose.

(seems the forum had some database issues and a recovery was performed)

[rwodar]

If the official administering free throws verbalized “two shots” this is just a mix up by players. Why wouldn’t they just blow it dead and shoot the second shot immediately?


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[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Another correctable error solution where a team gets disadvantaged due to a failure of the officials to properly do their job. I'm sure someone will come along and say this is somehow the fault of the coaches that the situation arose.

(seems the forum had some database issues and a recovery was performed)

Yes I see that -- and it also seems to have lost my response to this situation posted earlier this morning, after the recovery.

In any event,

1) No one in the discussion this weekend, at least that I saw, came close to blaming the coaches.

2) If the referees allowed play to continue, then it's a correctable error.

3) If the referees stopped (or attempted to stop) play, then it's not -- and the second basket and foul do not count.

4) Yes, there's some judgment about the timing and efforts to "attempt to stop" -- to address an "immediate tip-in" type play.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If the referees allowed play to continue, then it's a correctable error.

Some continued play? According to some, the error of the field goal being scored isn't correctable, it's only the second free throw not being taken that is correctable?

Isn't that what many thought?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Some continued play? According to some, the error of the field goal being scored isn't correctable, it's only the second free throw not being taken that is correctable?

Isn't that what many thought?

Bob is saying that if the officials allow the play to continue which culminates with a score and foul being called, we then follow the correctable error rule, which would mean the subsequent basket and foul do not get wiped out.

If the officials blow their whistles immediately in attempt to halt the play, we don't have a correctable error situation, we have a dead ball and none of the subsequent actions counts.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Yes I see that -- and it also seems to have lost my response to this situation posted earlier this morning, after the recovery.

In any event,

1) No one in the discussion this weekend, at least that I saw, came close to blaming the coaches.
...

It's my smart-a$$ reference to the fact that officials in this forum blame other correctable error situations on the coaches not bringing it to the attention of the officials that there is a mistake when the table misinforms the crew.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Raymond

It's my smart-a$$ reference to the fact that officials in this forum blame other correctable error situations on the coaches not bringing it to the attention of the officials that there is a mistake when the table misinforms the crew.

I don't think "blame" is the right word here -- at least not to me. It is true that what looks like an advantage can turn into a disadvantage when a CE situation is recognized after the fact.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Bob is saying that if the officials allow the play to continue which culminates with a score and foul being called, we then follow the correctable error rule, which would mean the subsequent basket and foul do not get wiped out. If the officials blow their whistles immediately in attempt to halt the play, we don't have a correctable error situation, we have a dead ball and none of the subsequent actions counts.

Even if it's an immediate tip in? If that's the case, then all teams will try this on the missed first shot of two shots.

What's immediate? How long does play have to continue? The original post situation could have happened in less than a second, although the word "scramble" may add a second to that. All happening while many players believed that it was two shots, as stated by the official, and don't rebound, or defend?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Even if it's an immediate tip in? If that's the case, then all teams will try this on the missed first shot of two shots.

What's immediate? How long does play have to continue? The original post situation could have happened in less than a second, although the word "scramble" may add a second to that. All happening while many players believed that it was two shots, as stated by the official, and don't rebound, or defend?

Stop it. Last time you tried this post, you broke the board.

See my point 4 above.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Stop it. Last time you tried this post, you broke the board.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Be careful, we could break the internet.

I was just kidding. Now Al Gore is really pissed at me.

[HokiePaul]

I'm a bit confused about how the official indicated 2 shots but yet allowed play to continue and then called a foul.

That said, I think that if the official clearly indicated 2 shots, then you can justify not scoring the points/ignoring the contact because this all occurred during a dead ball. Just because some players react, that doesn't mean the ball became live.

[rwodar]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

I'm a bit confused about how the official indicated 2 shots but yet allowed play to continue and then called a foul.



That said, I think that if the official clearly indicated 2 shots, then you can justify not scoring the points/ignoring the contact because this all occurred during a dead ball. Just because some players react, that doesn't mean the ball became live.

I’m on board with this philosophy. If “2 shots” was indicated my the administering official then just nullify what occurred during the deadball and shoot the second free throw. Common sense on things like this. If he verbalized something else, it’s a different story.


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[Raymond]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

I'm a bit confused about how the official indicated 2 shots but yet allowed play to continue and then called a foul.

That said, I think that if the official clearly indicated 2 shots, then you can justify not scoring the points/ignoring the contact because this all occurred during a dead ball. Just because some players react, that doesn't mean the ball became live.

I'm in this camp myself, except for the fact that the officials called a foul on the subsequent action. Once they treated it as a live play, it's kind of hard to go back and pretend it didn't happen. I'm surprised a crew that screwed up the initial free throw administration so badly properly administered the correctable error.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I was just kidding. Now Al Gore is really pissed at me.

Did the Forum outage cause the Forum to lose it's spell check feature?

(ABC Checkmark in upper right corner of message?)

My spell check (same program) still works from my browser, but not internally from within the Forum.