The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #16 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 04, 2018, 01:44pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 16,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
From the NFHS PowerPoint 2018:



Here in Connecticut, we've been told to never use the term "concussion" when discussing an injury with a coach. Never, ever. Verboten.

Rather: "Coach. I think that 15 got hit in the head. She looks like he's dizzy. You may want to check her."
SIGNS OF A concussion < > HAS A concussion.

And, I wouldn't say "MAY want to check her" -- if you are sending the player out, just send the player out with the reason; if it's only a "may" then don't say anything
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 04, 2018, 02:38pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 16,495
We're Certainly Not What You Would Call Experts ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
SIGNS OF A concussion < > HAS A concussion.
And, I wouldn't say "MAY want to check her" -- if you are sending the player out, just send the player out with the reason; if it's only a "may" then don't say anything
By Connecticut State law, officials don't send players out for concussion like symptoms, it's the responsibility of coaches, or qualified medical professionals, to do such.

The Connecticut State Legislature worked closely our state interscholastic sports governing body to come up laws regarding interscholastic sports related concussions.

All interscholastic sports coaches, all levels, head coaches, assistants, etc., have to pass a concussion protocol class (to be renewed periodically). The decision to remove a player from a game is solely in their hands (absent a qualified medical professorial (trainer, doctor, nurse, etc.)).

That official's branch of the state interscholastic sports governing body had a seat at the table (we didn't wear our striped shirts) when this law was first proposed. The law relieves officials from most responsibilities regarding removing a player from a game for concussion like symptoms (not for blood, that's still on us).

Absent a qualified medical professorial, it's totally on the coaches, all of whom have been properly trained in concussion protocol, not the officials, to remove a possibly concussed player from a contest.

It's the State law.

Officials don't receive the same (required) professional classroom instruction that the coaches receive.

That being said, Connecticut officials have been instructed to never use the term "concussion" in describing an injury to a coach. We can describe the symptoms that we observe, i.e., dizziness, poor balance, appears dazed, or stunned, etc., or how the actual injury occurred, i.e., took an elbow to the head, head hit floor, etc., but we can't use the term "concussion".

Again, the usual caveat, "When in a State that's not Connecticut ...".



Chung, chung.
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Oct 05, 2018 at 05:19am.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Oct 04, 2018, 08:03pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,451
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
By Connecticut State law, officials don't send players out for concussion like symptoms, it's the responsibility of coaches, or qualified medical professionals, to do such.

The Connecticut State Legislature worked closely our state interscholastic sports governing body to come up laws regarding interscholastic sports related concussions.

All interscholastic sports coaches, all levels, head coaches, assistants, etc., have to pass a yearly concussion protocol class. The decision to remove a player from a game is solely in their hands (absent a qualified medical professorial (trainer, doctor, nurse, etc.)).

That official's branch of the state interscholastic sports governing body had a seat at the table (we didn't wear our striped shirts) when this law was first proposed. The law relieves officials from most responsibilities regarding removing a player from a game for concussion like symptoms (not for blood, that's still on us).

Absent a qualified medical professorial, it's totally on the coaches, all of whom have been properly trained in concussion protocol, not the officials, to remove a possibly concussed player from a contest.

It's the State law.

Officials don't receive the same (required) professional classroom instruction that the coaches receive.

That being said, Connecticut officials have been instructed to never use the term "concussion" in describing an injury to a coach. We can describe the symptoms that we observe, i.e., dizziness, poor balance, appears dazed, or stunned, etc., or how the actual injury occurred, i.e., took an elbow to the head, head hit floor, etc., but we can't use the term "concussion".

Again, the usual caveat, "When in a State that's not Connecticut ...".



Chung, chung.


I thought it was: Doink! Doink!

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 09, 2018, 09:35pm
This IS My Social Life
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at L, T, or C
Posts: 2,177
Another . . .

. . . inaccurate statement on p.11:
"Allowing a coach to move within the new box between the 28-foot mark and the endline provides a coach more access to his or her players."
Problem is -- and you can determine the ultimate significance of this -- that statement holds true for floors that are 84' or longer, as rule 1-13-2 states.However, floors less than that, according to Casebook 1.13.2C, must measure 14' from the division line, then extend the box to the endline. Shorter floors mean shorter coaching boxes. All floors keep coaches from legally wandering closer than 14' from the division line and, presumably, keep them from getting in front of the table while coaching.
Valid point?
__________________
Making Every Effort to Be in the Right Place at the Right Time, Looking at the Right Thing to Make the Right Call
www.myvirtualofficialsassociation.com
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 09, 2018, 10:58pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
. . . inaccurate statement on p.11:
"Allowing a coach to move within the new box between the 28-foot mark and the endline provides a coach more access to his or her players."
Problem is -- and you can determine the ultimate significance of this -- that statement holds true for floors that are 84' or longer, as rule 1-13-2 states.However, floors less than that, according to Casebook 1.13.2C, must measure 14' from the division line, then extend the box to the endline. Shorter floors mean shorter coaching boxes. All floors keep coaches from legally wandering closer than 14' from the division line and, presumably, keep them from getting in front of the table while coaching.
Valid point?
Not inaccurate. I just don't think they really intended to cover oddball floors. And even so, it still allows more access to the players vs. the old coaching box size unless the court is less than 56 feet or so (and I've never seen one that short). A 74' court would still allow for a 23' coaching box...which is still substantially larger than a 14 foot box.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com

Last edited by Camron Rust; Tue Oct 09, 2018 at 11:00pm.
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 10, 2018, 06:15am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 16,495
You've Come A Long Way Baby ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Not inaccurate. I just don't think they really intended to cover oddball floors. And even so, it still allows more access to the players vs. the old coaching box size unless the court is less than 56 feet or so (and I've never seen one that short). A 74' court would still allow for a 23' coaching box...which is still substantially larger than a 14 foot box.
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that when the coaching box was first introduced, it was only six feet long. Am I right Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.?
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 10, 2018, 10:49am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,389
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that when the coaching box was first introduced, it was only six feet long. Am I right Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.?
You are correct.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 10, 2018, 02:09pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 16,495
Thanks Camron Rust ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Am I right Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
You are correct.
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Why are you posting under Camron Rust's username?
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 10, 2018, 02:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,389
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Why are you posting under Camron Rust's username?
Maybe I've been posting under MTD's username all these years! Oh, wait, no that can't be me. I don't have the rulebooks from from 1776.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 10, 2018, 03:10pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 16,495
Ancient Times © Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., 2018 ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Maybe I've been posting under MTD's username all these years! Oh, wait, no that can't be me. I don't have the rulebooks from from 1776.


Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. is on the far right, in the yellow vest.

Quite dashing, isn't he?

The door on the right leads to Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.'s attic library.

The NFHS Rules Committee was much larger back then and committee members had to wear powdered wigs.
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Oct 10, 2018 at 03:17pm.
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 12, 2018, 08:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Seems that someone jumped the gun in an article which appears in the 2018 preseason guide and this has resulted in a problem. I believe that one of the rule changes under consideration, but ultimately rejected this past off-season was to make coaches accountable for illegal equipment by creating a penalty of a technical foul charged to the head coach should a player be found to be wearing an illegal item.
Well, here is what has been printed in the preseason guide:
"Coaches shall not allow players to wear illegal equipment or apparel. Should a team member participate while wearing illegal equipment or apparel, the penalty is a technical foul charged to the head coach as described in Rule 10-6-3 Pen. upon discovery."

Unfortunately, this isn't true. Illegal equipment and apparel are not the same as an illegal uniform and don't result in the same penalty.
WhAt page of the guide is this on?? I did 2 quick glances through all 16 pages and couldn’t find it.
__________________
If you ain't first, you're LAST!!!
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old Fri Oct 12, 2018, 11:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,239
Page 8, in the upper left corner below PlayPic H.
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old Sun Oct 14, 2018, 09:37am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 16,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Seems that someone jumped the gun in an article which appears in the 2018 preseason guide and this has resulted in a problem. I believe that one of the rule changes under consideration, but ultimately rejected this past off-season was to make coaches accountable for illegal equipment by creating a penalty of a technical foul charged to the head coach should a player be found to be wearing an illegal item.
Well, here is what has been printed in the preseason guide:
"Coaches shall not allow players to wear illegal equipment or apparel. Should a team member participate while wearing illegal equipment or apparel, the penalty is a technical foul charged to the head coach as described in Rule 10-6-3 Pen. upon discovery."

Unfortunately, this isn't true. Illegal equipment and apparel are not the same as an illegal uniform and don't result in the same penalty.
The same (or essentially similar) slide / concept of a T is in the powerpoint sent out to the states.

I hope they get this clarified.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 17, 2018, 11:36am
Show up, keep up, shut up
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
"Coaches shall not allow players to wear illegal equipment or apparel. Should a team member participate while wearing illegal equipment or apparel, the penalty is a technical foul charged to the head coach as described in Rule 10-6-3 Pen. upon discovery."
Not only is this wrong, it's also the wrong rule reference. 10-6-3 concerns playing a player after that player has been disqualified.

10-6-4 is closer to what they wrote, it concerns a technical foul charged to the head coach for illegal UNIFORMS, not illegal equipment or illegal apparel like they posit here.
Reply With Quote
  #30 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 17, 2018, 03:22pm
This IS My Social Life
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at L, T, or C
Posts: 2,177
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
The same (or essentially similar) slide / concept of a T is in the powerpoint sent out to the states.

I hope they get this clarified.
I was informed by one our training brethren in Hawaii that the NFHS sent out corrections to that erroneous part of their PowerPoint. Will attach it as soon as I can get it downloaded.
__________________
Making Every Effort to Be in the Right Place at the Right Time, Looking at the Right Thing to Make the Right Call
www.myvirtualofficialsassociation.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2018 NFHS Rules Changes OKREF Football 36 Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:19am
Myths/Facts from the OhioHSAA Edition of the NASO Preseason Basketball Guide. Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Basketball 2 Sat Nov 04, 2017 06:19pm
NFHS Preseason Guide SC Official Basketball 19 Fri Oct 06, 2017 06:05pm
New 2009 fed preseason guide quote???? jkumpire Baseball 27 Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:59am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:37pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1