Wanted, Reward, Dead Or Alive ...

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by SC Official

You’re completely ignoring conflicts that come up in one’s personal life that can’t be foreseen from so far out. Officiating high school basketball is not most people’s first priority.

It also ignores the fact that we don't get our most of our college assignments until October/early November.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

It also ignores the fact that we don't get our most of our college assignments until October/early November.

We also do not get our college games until that time. But if you are really a college official, you know not to take any high school games on Saturdays or common conference days (which can vary). It is not necessarily common that you get an afternoon high school game. And anyone that assigns me or others know that if we get a college game, we are not working the high school game. I for the first time ever in my career had a game on Friday that was a college game. I told the assignor to take me off of the game and he did just that without any issues. If that is a problem then I will work for someone else that understands and most clearly do.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Rich

That's simply not true. Most of us assign by crew. If one official turns a game back, the crew finds a replacement. If that person is good enough for the CREW (who has to work with him/her), that person's good enough for me. Unless I've been burned by that person and won't hire him/her, of course.

I have 350 games to assign. If I'm the only conference not assigning 15 months in advance, I am not getting ANY of the best crews.

Things are just different in your area. We don't find subs here (or in other states I've worked in, or for college games) if we have to give a game back.

I also think the crew concept in basketball is dumb, and further excludes new/transfer officials. I get that that's not your problem as an assigner, but still. I'd hate to have to relocate to Wisconsin from an officiating perspective (and because of the weather).

I get why YOU assign 15 months out, in the context of the way things work in your state. My point was that overall, as a system, I would not be a fan and am glad games here don't generally go out more than 3 weeks ahead of time.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

We do not have this issue as you are making out to be...

I didn't make it an issue. I simply think it's an unfavorable setup and am glad things don't work that way here.

As you always say, states can do things their own way.

Originally Posted by Raymond

It also ignores the fact that we don't get our most of our college assignments until October/early November.

I'd leave every high school date open, and give back however many games I had to based on the college games I get. Too many things can happen. What if you get removed from one of the college conferences you work for? Now there's no guarantee you'll be able to work on those dates you blocked thinking you'd have a college game.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Things are just different in your area. We don't find subs here (or in other states I've worked in, or for college games) if we have to give a game back.

I also think the crew concept in basketball is dumb, and further excludes new/transfer officials. I get that that's not your problem as an assigner, but still. I'd hate to have to relocate to Wisconsin from an officiating perspective (and because of the weather).

I get why YOU assign 15 months out, in the context of the way things work in your state. My point was that overall, as a system, I would not be a fan and am glad games here don't generally go out more than 3 weeks ahead of time.

On the other hand, I get paid to assign games once. Not assign, have a turn-back, assign again, etc. etc.

Note -- I don't work for the association or for the officials. I hire for the schools and they pay me.

We do assign singles for a few schools -- those 6 schools I outsource to an association who does do some assigning as part of what they do. Those assignments are usually done about 6 months in advance.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Rich

On the other hand, I get paid to assign games once. Not assign, have a turn-back, assign again, etc. etc.

That's fine, but turnbacks are a price assigners pay for sending contracts that far in advance. It's not reasonable to expect officials to have 100% accurate availability so far out.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SC Official

That's fine, but turnbacks are a price assigners pay for sending contracts that far in advance. It's not reasonable to expect officials to have 100% accurate availability so far out.

It's the culture here. If you take a game and sign a contract and need to get off it, the assigner decides how it's filled.

I have caught officials turning back games to work a better game or a closer game or one that pays more money. Unless it's a college game, that's not acceptable. If an official needs off a game and is then seen on TV highlights working elsewhere....


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SC Official

... the crew concept in basketball ...

When in Rome ...

One of the things I like about officiating is the collegiality. With 325 guys on my local board, I seldom work with the same official more than once per season, but over a period of almost forty years I have worked a dozen times, or more, with many of them. I also work with guys that I've never worked with before. I enjoy both catching up with the veterans (kids out of college, how's the new job, how many grandchildren), and getting to know newer guys (what do you do for a living). In regard to the social aspect of officiating (important to a retired, divorced guy like myself who lives alone with his cat), it's never boring here in my little corner of Connecticut. With my recent orthopedic problems, I'm probably just a few years away from not actively working games, and I'm sure that I will miss the social aspect of officiating more than anything else.

When I work with a veteran whom I haven't worked with in a while, and they say, "It's been a few years", I usually reply, "That's because I told our assigner that I didn't want to work with you anymore". Yeah, our local veterans have "chain yanking" down to a science. That's what makes it so much fun. Yeah, the money's good, the game's challenging, but the fun is the best part of officiating for me. After all, basketball is still just a game, and games are supposed to be fun.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When in Rome ...



One of the things I like about officiating is the collegiality. With 325 guys on my local board, I seldom work with the same official more than once per season, but over a period of almost forty years I have worked a dozen times, or more, with many of them. I also work with guys that I've never worked with before. I enjoy both catching up with the veterans (kids out of college, how's the new job, how many grandchildren), and getting to know newer guys (what do you do for a living). In regard to the social aspect of officiating (important to a retired, divorced guy like myself who lives alone with his cat), it's never boring here in my little corner of Connecticut. With my recent orthopedic problems, I'm probably just a few years away from not actively working games, and I'm sure that I will miss the social aspect of officiating more than anything else.



When I work with a veteran whom I haven't worked with in a while, and they say, "It's been a few years", I usually reply, "That's because I told our assigner that I didn't want to work with you anymore". Yeah, our local veterans have "chain yanking" down to a science. That's what makes it so much fun. Yeah, the money's good, the game's challenging, but the fun is the best part of officiating for me. After all, basketball is still just a game, and games are supposed to be fun.

On the other hand, my crew is also 3/5 of our football crew and we're all close friends. I like that. I also like working with other people, but not all the time.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

On the other hand, I get paid to assign games once. Not assign, have a turn-back, assign again, etc., etc.

With all due respect, and I know little about assigning, other than I would never do it, aren't you paid to reschedule due to weather, illness, injuries, turnbacks, etc., not as a separate fee, but as part of the job that most assigners are expected to do.

It's like somebody saying that they don't pay local property taxes because they rent. They do pay property taxes, but not to the city, but to their landlord, it's part of the rent, the landlord then pays the property taxes. It would be foolish for a landlord not to consider property taxes when they determine the rent payment.

If an assigner goes into the job thinking that they won't have to make adjustments along the way, and they sign a contract for a certain fee with that impression, hasn't the assigner made a big mistake, both financially and in terms of time commitment?

I'm pretty sure that Rich knew this already, and was referring to excessive turnbacks that could have been avoided by adjusting one's availability (I forgot that I'm in a bowling league every Wednesday night).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

On the other hand, my crew is also 3/5 of our football crew and we're all close friends. I like that.

Good point. I bet you guys get together in the off season, with wives and girlfriends, to socialize, weddings, graduations, birthdays, holidays, etc. I get it. Good point, which is why I started my post with, "When in Rome ...".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I didn't make it an issue. I simply think it's an unfavorable setup and am glad things don't work that way here.

As you always say, states can do things their own way.

Yes, but we do not have a shortage of officials in basketball in this state. This is pretty much how it is done in some capacity across the state. You said it was a problem, but it seems to be working here. Again these are the terms and people work about it. I do not know anyone complaining they have a game a year out on a Friday or even Saturday (if they are not a college official). This gives you plenty of time to plan and adjust. I usually block the dates for a particular assignor in November, December and January for the following year. I get the actual game, site and time around July or as late as August for the coming year after the camp season is over. And here is the thing, we do not have the state office giving us games. I know the limited choices I will work on any given date based on who assigned the game or who I blocked the date off for. I do not know if you have the traffic problems with do here in the Chicago area, but that can change your day big time based on where the game is located. But at least I know if I accept a game from someone in the Western Suburbs, I know what my travel is going to be as compared to the Northern Suburbs or a game in the City of Chicago. If I cannot do the game, I know assignors have people that can and willing to fill the contest. They might not get who they want, but they will get someone. And those like myself that have been around get asked first anyway to fill dates. Not everyone is getting asked as early as me to fill dates for the following season.

Originally Posted by SC Official

I'd leave every high school date open, and give back however many games I had to based on the college games I get. Too many things can happen. What if you get removed from one of the college conferences you work for? Now there's no guarantee you'll be able to work on those dates you blocked thinking you'd have a college game.

Again the college official is in a different situation. But we have so many college games around here, that depending on the level you work, you probably work for multiple assignors at the college level. We have all levels including D1 right in our backyard. High school assignors understand this and if they have some of their best officials that work college, they accommodate for them often. One of my first college men's assignors assigns games in both high school and college. He does not give his college staff high school games on Saturdays to cover this college games. I also give him several Friday dates and his stuff is close or not very far when I work high school for him. It works out well.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's the culture here. If you take a game and sign a contract and need to get off it, the assigner decides how it's filled.

I have caught officials turning back games to work a better game or a closer game or one that pays more money. Unless it's a college game, that's not acceptable. If an official needs off a game and is then seen on TV highlights working elsewhere....

Right but that's a completely different issue than giving back a game for a work, family, etc. conflict that one couldn't foresee 15 months ahead of time.

Originally Posted by Rich

On the other hand, my crew is also 3/5 of our football crew and we're all close friends. I like that. I also like working with other people, but not all the time.

Hell, football isn't even done by crew here. It probably should be, but when in Rome...

Basketball crews I am not remotely interested in, however.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

That's fine, but turnbacks are a price assigners pay for sending contracts that far in advance. It's not reasonable to expect officials to have 100% accurate availability so far out.

Actually, a lot of changes have nothing to do with how far they are set out. Many changes are because the school changed the time, the date and sometimes the site that could take place a few weeks out. So your theory that having givebacks is really not accurate for where I live. Even when I lived in Central Illinois, where I started officiating, this was not a problem and those games were assigned by mostly ADs at the time and were given sometimes two seasons in advance. Schools knew certain games would be played and wanted to lock in their "better" officials.

And I cannot speak for what happens in South Carolina, but we have weather here that can change everything the morning of a game. We can have snow in the morning that can move a game time or move it to another date in a matter of hours. That is a much bigger issue than having a game given a season in advance.

Again, not the issue here. I see why someone from another state might see this as an issue, but if you lived here you would get over it very quickly. You would have to or not officiate. We have plenty of basketball officials in our state and area, not struggling with this situation at all to my understanding.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Right but that's a completely different issue than giving back a game for a work, family, etc. conflict that one couldn't foresee 15 months ahead of time.

What possible situation that is so much of an issue you see because a game is given 15 months in advance? People usually schedule weddings more than a year ahead of the time and basketball season is often not that time of year those take place. Birthdays never change. My son's birthday is in December and I am working on this actual birthday this year because it is a weekday/school day. A lot of job situations do not drastically change and if they do they are not jobs where the person could not officiate in the first place. Even a baby coming is kind of known in advance. The only thing I can think of is a death or maybe a sickness that might come up that you have to change things. My kid's activities are known before the activity starts months in advance.

I get that this is not what you guys do and that is fine, but you keep hammering things that are almost never a problem that far in advance of the game. Again, I know I am working every single Friday and Saturday of the basketball season as almost a guarantee. If I need one of those days off for something I know months in advance, I either do not go to the even or I get off the game. And I am going to work one or two other days during the week either for a high school or college game.

Peace