Wanted, Reward, Dead Or Alive ...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

The difference between your rating structure and ours is that ours impacts regular season and postseason assignments.

I'm not focusing on the specifics of a system (yours or mine). I am talking about how we prevent officials from feeling like this is something they need to try. One of the reasons people stop officiating high school sports is the systems that are put into place to make roadblocks for their opportunity. When they get certain opportunities they go in those directions rather than stay with the high school game. Often that is the fault of the systems put into place that does not allow them to grow at that level. If you had not noticed, I was stating that our system had barriers to getting certain places and that has had officials say, "I will just work college." They might not get 50 college games, but if they work 25, that might be enough for them. Heck in some cases you get paid just as much for the fewer games.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I'm not focusing on the specifics of a system (yours or mine). I am talking about how we prevent officials from feeling like this is something they need to try. One of the reasons people stop officiating high school sports is the systems that are put into place to make roadblocks for their opportunity. When they get certain opportunities they go in those directions rather than stay with the high school game. Often that is the fault of the systems put into place that does not allow them to grow at that level. If you had not noticed, I was stating that our system had barriers to getting certain places and that has had officials say, "I will just work college." They might not get 50 college games, but if they work 25, that might be enough for them. Heck in some cases you get paid just as much for the fewer games.

Peace

I noticed completely what you were trying to say and agree with you. I was only pointing out the major difference between our two states' rating systems.

[ilyazhito]

This makes sense, that there are artificial barriers in place to people moving up. If there are fewer officials, period, this is problematic, because it prevents games from being covered. There are several possibilities to get around this: take "ready-made" officials from college/university intramural programs, recruit downward by getting local college officials to work high school games on their days off and to mentor high school officials, or accelerate newer officials judiciously by providing targeted training (put subvarsity officials in a program to teach 3P mechanics and have them work rec/travel/adult games that would otherwise be 2P as 3P games for experience, with spot varsity assignments to the best trainees/those near the end of the program, or assign MS officials to work 8th/9th grade rec/travel games, with some freshman/JV assignments to get the best of them next-level exposure. Those with existing experience (transfers/dual members/intramural officials) can be evaluated and accelerated as needed).

Any other solutions to alleviate the numbers crunch and reduce artificial constraints? Recruiting college officials down might put experienced officials in the playoffs or on high-profile games, while allowing younger officials to work alongside and learn from them.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

This makes sense, that there are artificial barriers in place to people moving up. If there are fewer officials, period, this is problematic, because it prevents games from being covered. There are several possibilities to get around this: take "ready-made" officials from college/university intramural programs, recruit downward by getting local college officials to work high school games on their days off and to mentor high school officials, or accelerate newer officials judiciously by providing targeted training (put subvarsity officials in a program to teach 3P mechanics and have them work rec/travel/adult games that would otherwise be 2P as 3P games for experience, with spot varsity assignments to the best trainees/those near the end of the program, or assign MS officials to work 8th/9th grade rec/travel games, with some freshman/JV assignments to get the best of them next-level exposure. Those with existing experience (transfers/dual members/intramural officials) can be evaluated and accelerated as needed).

Any other solutions to alleviate the numbers crunch and reduce artificial constraints? Recruiting college officials down might put experienced officials in the playoffs or on high-profile games, while allowing younger officials to work alongside and learn from them.

There are plenty of good ideas, none of them are going to work. I live in an area where 2 NBA refs are actively recruiting and assigning officials to work games from the lowest levels all the way up to 2 independent 4-year colleges. We are still struggling to:
#1 get officials on the roster
#2 get officials to take training seriously.

We are on a downward slide in officiating that I don't think we're ever going to recover from.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

This makes sense, that there are artificial barriers in place to people moving up. If there are fewer officials, period, this is problematic, because it prevents games from being covered. There are several possibilities to get around this: take "ready-made" officials from college/university intramural programs, recruit downward by getting local college officials to work high school games on their days off and to mentor high school officials, or accelerate newer officials judiciously by providing targeted training (put subvarsity officials in a program to teach 3P mechanics and have them work rec/travel/adult games that would otherwise be 2P as 3P games for experience, with spot varsity assignments to the best trainees/those near the end of the program, or assign MS officials to work 8th/9th grade rec/travel games, with some freshman/JV assignments to get the best of them next-level exposure. Those with existing experience (transfers/dual members/intramural officials) can be evaluated and accelerated as needed).

I have some experience with college intramural officials as one of my better friends runs an intermural program on a major college campus. One of the issues with officials from those programs is they often do not have the transportation or the time to work games all the way out. This is especially true if they do not have the desire or commitment to the craft yet. But those that get the bug often do very well, but it is getting those out of their comfort zone to officiate real games. The intermural environment is very different than a game where the bullet are really flying in an actual middle school or high school environment. My friend had done a lot to get those officials to work games and it often does not work for most. Again the behavior of the participants and fans often is the main deterrent to those getting into the profession.

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Any other solutions to alleviate the numbers crunch and reduce artificial constraints? Recruiting college officials down might put experienced officials in the playoffs or on high-profile games while allowing younger officials to work alongside and learn from them.

I do feel we need to do a better job to recruit younger officials. The problem is again that younger people do not see the desire to get into officiating in any sport. They do not see the value in being apart of a sport that they played. We even have a harder time to get young women that played the sport. Often the people that officiate are men that never played the game at any significant level in the first place. Most of the people we get here are men that who watched a child play sports in high school or college and then they get into officiating to stay connected to the sport.

I run a "Beginning Officials Class" and almost all the new students are people in the classes are in their 40s and older.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do feel we need to do a better job to recruit younger officials. The problem is again that younger people do not see the desire to get into officiating in any sport. They do not see the value in being apart of a sport that they played.

Maybe we need another recession? We got a lot of new officials back in 2009-2010. There was a waiting list to get trained. Turned many away.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do feel we need to do a better job to recruit younger officials.

I agree. I found it especially difficult to recruit in rural areas. The younger guys I know who actually have interest will not do it because they have young families. We drive 100+ miles to do games sometimes. That is a lot of time away from home. It is only going to get worse as older guys retire.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by CJP

We drive 100+ miles to do games sometimes.

That's crazy. My longest trip (one way) is 55 miles.

I hope that you get to work one of those boy/girl doubleheaders after such a long journey, and/or get mileage.

Wasn't there a Forum member a few years ago that used to take airplane trips to his games in Alaska? That's also crazy.

I worked a game a few years ago where the visiting team took the ferry from Fishers Island, a small island in Long Island Sound (between Connecticut and Long Island, New York) to Connecticut. Fishers Island School only has about 70 students total, from kindergarten to twelfth grade. Now that was also crazy. I wonder who works their home games and what teams take the ferry to play Fishers Island School?

[CJP]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

That's crazy. My longest trip (one way) is 55 miles.

I hope that you get to work one of those boy/girl doubleheaders after such a long journey, and/or get mileage.

Wasn't there a Forum member a few years ago that used to take airplane trips to his games in Alaska? That's also crazy.

I worked a game a few years ago where the visiting team took the ferry from Fishers Island, a small island in Long Island Sound (between Connecticut and Long Island, New York) to Connecticut. Fishers Island School only has about 70 students total, from kindergarten to twelfth grade. Now that was also crazy. I wonder who works their home games and what teams take the ferry to play Fishers Island School?

Double header varsity games are nice but most nights they are not DH. Pay is about $90 for a jv/varsity game. One guy will usually get milage so we try to ride with each other most times. There are times when the officials come from different towns and some schools will pay us each milage. Our trips are 30-100+ miles (one way). The furthest I traveled last year was 180 miles (one way) for a DH. A friend of mine had a guy back out so I stepped up. That milage check was nice but my whole day was lost. I am not sure it was worth it. I don't think I would do it again.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have some experience with college intramural officials as one of my better friends runs an intermural program on a major college campus. One of the issues with officials from those programs is they often do not have the transportation or the time to work games all the way out. This is especially true if they do not have the desire or commitment to the craft yet. But those that get the bug often do very well, but it is getting those out of their comfort zone to officiate real games. The intermural environment is very different than a game where the bullet are really flying in an actual middle school or high school environment. My friend had done a lot to get those officials to work games and it often does not work for most. Again the behavior of the participants and fans often is the main deterrent to those getting into the profession.



I do feel we need to do a better job to recruit younger officials. The problem is again that younger people do not see the desire to get into officiating in any sport. They do not see the value in being apart of a sport that they played. We even have a harder time to get young women that played the sport. Often the people that officiate are men that never played the game at any significant level in the first place. Most of the people we get here are men that who watched a child play sports in high school or college and then they get into officiating to stay connected to the sport.

I run a "Beginning Officials Class" and almost all the new students are people in the classes are in their 40s and older.

Peace

About travel issues, it probably depends on the quality of transportation options available. In the DC Metro Area, I am able to get around on a combination of public transportation and Uber, on days that I don't have access to a car. If there is reliable public transit (or at least Über, ridesharing, and/or taxi service available), then transportation is less of a problem. If not, associations might consider creating a carpool system to ensure that officials can ride to games together (this would help those officials without cars).

A carpool system would also be useful for associations with large coverage areas, because even officials with cars might find it easier to ride to a neutral area to meet partners, and then ride as a crew to their game from that neutral site, than to drive the 50+ or 100+ miles alone. Heck, part of the pregame conference might already be covered on the ride to the game site. Maybe multiple officials could be assigned to ride together from a subvarsity game to a varsity game (e.g. the U1 and U2 come to Boondocks High School from the City High School boys JV game to work the Boondocks boys varsity game with the R, who already had the Boondocks JV game).

For younger officials, I would conduct sales pitches not only with the potential officials themselves, but also with significant others and/or family. This way, the people important to potential officials' lives would understand the benefits and sacrifices that officiating entails early in the process, and would decide whether and how to support their loved ones in officiating. I would also pitch the opportunities for advancement and mobility in the officiating profession, opportunities for recognition and development, and the opportunity to earn better money than in most part-time jobs. This is an element that has appealed to officials historically (cf. Ed Hochuli and Pop Warner football officiating when he was a law school student).

[JRutledge]

All sounds wonderful, but no one is going through all of that to cover games. I get that some might need rides, but if I have to go out of my way to assign you a game, then that might be an issue. It is hard enough for an assignor to get people that can come to the game, now you want them to assign games for others to be the reason they get there? Then if that person for some reason cannot pick up the person, now you have to find another person to replace the two assignments.

That is a lot of work.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I noticed completely what you were trying to say and agree with you. I was only pointing out the major difference between our two states' rating systems.

We have a lot of differences around the country. Not surprised by the multiple differences anymore I guess.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

We have a lot of differences around the country. Not surprised by the multiple differences anymore I guess.

Nor am I. And I didn't realize it until I joined the Forum.