Thoughts on Block/Charge play and sequence that follows

[deecee]

On first watch I had black player with a flagrant for the follow through and slam. Don't know how you only have a common foul. I was also surprised at the low level of T's for the overall chirpiness and crappy player behavior.

How many times in a game can you say "knock it off"?

[BillyMac]

I've decided to play.

Defensive player held legal guarding position. Offensive player didn't charge but jumped over defensive player who then intentionally and flagrantly fouled the offensive airborne shooter who was still in the act of shooting (hadn't returned to the floor yet) before the ball went in the basket. No technical foul because the ball hadn't yet gone in the basket, and the airborne shooter hadn't returned to the floor, so it was a live ball foul.

Count the basket. Offensive player get two free throws for the intentional flagrant foul with the lane cleared and his team gets the ball back at spot closest to the foul. Defensive player gets ejected and sits on the bench for the rest of the game.

I agree with bob jenkins, this would have been more interesting, in terms of how to handle it, if there had been a double foul, or false double foul.

Nice video jeremy341a. Thanks.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by billymac

count the basket. Offensive player get two free throws for the intentional foul with the lane cleared and his team gets the ball back at spot closest to the foul. Defensive player gets ejected and sits on the bench for the rest of the game.

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jerkins

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Originally Posted by BillyMac

... defensive player who then intentionally and flagrantly fouled the offensive airborne shooter ...

4-19-4: A flagrant foul may be a personal ... foul of a violent or savage nature ... It may or may not be intentional.

Couldn't flipping an opponent over one's shoulder be considered excessive contact and "not a basketball play", i.e., an intentional foul?

The play in the video looks more like a wrestling play to me. Does anybody have a WWE Rulebook, or a WWE Casebook?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

4-19-4: A flagrant foul may be a personal ... foul of a violent or savage nature ... It may or may not be intentional.

Couldn't flipping an opponent over one's shoulder be considered excessive contact and "not a basketball play", i.e., an intentional foul?

The play in the video looks more like a wrestling play to me. Does anybody have a WWE Rulebook, or a WWE Casebook?

You can't eject for an intentional foul. Period.

A flagrant foul can be the result of some intentional acts, but that use of "intentional" is different from the use in Intentional foul.

[JRutledge]

The penalty for a flagrant foul is almost the same as the penalty for an intentional foul, the difference is the player is ejected that committed the foul.

Two FT shots and spot of the foul for the throw-in on a play like this.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You can't eject for an intentional foul. Period.
A flagrant foul can be the result of some intentional acts, but that use of "intentional" is different from the use in Intentional foul.

100% agree that one can never be ejected for an intentional foul.

Are you saying that one can never have an intentional flagrant foul?

4-19-4: A flagrant foul may be a personal ... foul of a violent or savage nature ... It may or may not be intentional.

Or that an intentional foul can never be considered to be flagrant?

In this video, I'm definitely (and immediately) coming in with an intentional foul signal (the X), possibly adding the IAABO-unapproved excessive contact signal (drop both hands), and then definitely adding the IAABO-unapproved "heave ho", or "you're outta here", signal (point to the sky).



4-19-3: An intentional foul is a personal or technical foul that may or may not be premeditated and is not based solely on the severity of the act. Intentional fouls include, but are not limited to:
a. Contact that neutralizes an opponent's obvious advantageous position.
b. Contact away from the ball with an opponent who is clearly not involved with a play.
c. Contact that is not a legitimate attempt to play the ball/player specifically designed to stop the clock or keep it from starting.
d. Excessive contact with an opponent while playing the ball.
e. Contact with a thrower-in as in 9-2-10 Penalty 4.

In other words, I'm "upgrading" my intentional foul to a flagrant foul, and calling it an intentional flagrant foul, which as JRutledge pointed out, simply adds the additional penalty of an ejection (to the bench).

Sometimes an excessive contact intentional foul doesn't rise to the violent, or savage level of a flagrant foul, but sometimes it does, as I believe that it does in this specific case, thus the upgrade to intentional flagrant with the added penalty of ejection.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

In other words, I'm "upgrading" my intentional foul to a flagrant foul, and calling it an intentional flagrant foul, which as JRutledge pointed out, simply adds the additional penalty of an ejection.

Sometimes an excessive contact intentional foul doesn't rise to the violent, or savage level of a flagrant foul, but sometimes it does.

There is no such thing as an Intentional Flagrant Foul. A Flagrant Foul is just that, a flagrant act. If that is the case, then you do not need to complicate the issue. Now if it was a technical, then you can have a Flagrant Technical. But that is not enforced the same as a regular flagrant foul. A Flagrant Foul only the fouled player can shoot that unless injured of course. Anyone can shoot a Flagrant Technical Foul. Kind of why the language matters here.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Are you saying that one can never have an intentional flagrant foul?

Yes.