random situations

[sdoebler]

Player A1 dribbles into the lane and jumps for a try. Player B2 jumps to block the shot. Player A2 is between B2 and the basket facing the basket, Player A1 realizes his shot is going to be blocked throws the ball at A2s back. The ball hits A2s back and bonces back to A1 while his is still in the air and he catches the ball. A1 lands dribbles to the basket and scores. Legal Play? Basically the bonce off A2s back is considered a pass and a pass back?


So this next situation actually also happened in a camp and the D1 clinician wasn't sure of the rule. Would like the NCAA rule and high school rule if possible.

A1 has the ball out of bounds near the basket for a front court spot throw in. A1 passes the ball in bounds and then stays in his spot out bounds. A good 10-15 seconds pass while team A is still in control in the front court and A1 is still at the point of the throw in standing out of bounds. Is he required to return to the court at the conclusion of the throw in at any time period?

Thanks

[Raymond]

Someone will cite the applicable rule, but that is a technical in the NCAA-Men's and NFHS rule sets; Class B in NCAA-Men's.

[sdoebler]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Someone will cite the applicable rule, but that is a technical in the NCAA-Men's and NFHS rule sets; Class B in NCAA-Men's.

Section 4. CLASS B TECHNICAL INFRACTIONS
Art. 1.
k. Purposely delaying his return to the playing court after being legally out
of bounds;

Ah that's NCAA, thanks still working on finding NFHS

[sdoebler]

NFHS

SECTION 3 PLAYER TECHNICAL
A player shall not:

ART. 2 . . . Purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

[bob jenkins]

Also NCAAW:

Art. 3. Player/Substitute Technical Fouls
j. Purposely delaying her return to the playing court after being legally out
of bounds.

Note that in practice, it's going to need to be a *really* long time and not just a momentary hesitation. I've never seen it called.

Your first play is legal.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

Player A1 dribbles into the lane and jumps for a try. Player B2 jumps to block the shot. Player A2 is between B2 and the basket facing the basket, Player A1 realizes his shot is going to be blocked throws the ball at A2s back. The ball hits A2s back and bonces back to A1 while his is still in the air and he catches the ball. A1 lands dribbles to the basket and scores. Legal Play? Basically the bonce off A2s back is considered a pass and a pass back?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Your first play is legal.

Always listen to bob.

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended,
unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.

4-44: Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits
while holding the ball. The limits on foot movements are as follows:
ART. 3 After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is
released on a pass or try for goal.
b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball
is released on a pass or try for goal.
c. The pivot foot may not be lifted before the ball is released, to start a dribble.
ART. 4 After coming to a stop when neither foot can be a pivot:
a. One or both feet may be lifted, but may not be returned to the floor before
the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
b. Neither foot may be lifted before the ball is released, to start a dribble.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

NFHS
SECTION 3 PLAYER TECHNICAL
A player shall not:
ART. 2 Purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

Going back forty years, has this ever been a NFHS violation rather than a technical foul?

(Officiate long enough and it's not the rules that are confusing, it's the rule changes that are confusing.)

[sdoebler]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Note that in practice, it's going to need to be a *really* long time and not just a momentary hesitation. I've never seen it called.

Right, I wasn't on the game but it was a solid 10-15 seconds which seems like forever when you are looking at the kid. Additionally, the situation could most likely be prevented by the official telling the kid "Get on the court"

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

NFHS SECTION 3 PLAYER TECHNICAL: A player shall not: Purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Going back forty years, has this ever been a NFHS violation rather than a technical foul? (Officiate long enough and it's not the rules that are confusing, it's the rule changes that are confusing.)

Wait? Maybe it was this: A player shall not leave the court for an unauthorized reason, that used to be a technical foul that is now a violation?

I'm so confused. Where's Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. when you need him?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

Player A1 dribbles into the lane and jumps for a try. Player B2 jumps to block the shot. Player A2 is between B2 and the basket facing the basket, Player A1 realizes his shot is going to be blocked throws the ball at A2s back. The ball hits A2s back and bonces back to A1 while his is still in the air and he catches the ball. A1 lands dribbles to the basket and scores. Legal Play? Basically the bonce off A2s back is considered a pass and a pass back?


So this next situation actually also happened in a camp and the D1 clinician wasn't sure of the rule. Would like the NCAA rule and high school rule if possible.

A1 has the ball out of bounds near the basket for a front court spot throw in. A1 passes the ball in bounds and then stays in his spot out bounds. A good 10-15 seconds pass while team A is still in control in the front court and A1 is still at the point of the throw in standing out of bounds. Is he required to return to the court at the conclusion of the throw in at any time period?

Thanks

1. Legal play. Players jump into the air and throw a pass all the time. One or two of them are bound to get deflected back to the original player.
2. Really? A D1 clinician doesn't know that rule?!?! You should get a refund of your camp fee due to instructor incompetence.

Originally Posted by sdoebler

Right, I wasn't on the game but it was a solid 10-15 seconds which seems like forever when you are looking at the kid. Additionally, the situation could most likely be prevented by the official telling the kid "Get on the court"

It's not the official's job to instruct the player. That is not preventative officiating. This player has already committed an infraction. The official should simply make the call.

[ilyazhito]

That shouldn't happen, but if he does, this is a technical foul for leaving the court for an unauthorized reason. This would be the same in NCAA, because "out of bounds by his own volition" specifically refers to a situation where such out-of-bounds player comes back in to receive the ball. Even if there is no specific rule against staying out of bounds at other levels, I would use the "leaving the court for an unauthorized reason" rule to penalize the player. It would be surprising if a coach doesn't notice that his player stayed out of bounds, but this is a situation where being stupid is a crime (laughter).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

... technical foul for leaving the court for an unauthorized reason.

Be careful here. According to NFHS rules, "Purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds", is not the same as "leave the court for an unauthorized reason". The former is a technical foul, usually (but not always) associated with a throwin situation, the latter is a violation usually associated with situations involving play action (using a screen by running out of bounds).

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

That shouldn't happen, but if he does, this is a technical foul for leaving the court for an unauthorized reason.

Being OOB to be the inbounder isn't an authorized reason? Lah me.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

That shouldn't happen, but if he does, this is a technical foul for leaving the court for an unauthorized reason. This would be the same in NCAA, because "out of bounds by his own volition" specifically refers to a situation where such out-of-bounds player comes back in to receive the ball. Even if there is no specific rule against staying out of bounds at other levels, I would use the "leaving the court for an unauthorized reason" rule to penalize the player. It would be surprising if a coach doesn't notice that his player stayed out of bounds, but this is a situation where being stupid is a crime (laughter).

I hope that you are referring to FIBA or NBA rules, with which I'm not familiar, because you are incorrect for both NFHS and NCAA. Those rule citations have already been posted in this thread.

[sdoebler]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It's not the official's job to instruct the player. That is not preventative officiating. This player has already committed an infraction. The official should simply make the call.

I would have to disagree here, it is much better for the game to tell the kid to get on the court then to go through that violation and penalty administration.