random situations

[sdoebler]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Note that in practice, it's going to need to be a *really* long time and not just a momentary hesitation. I've never seen it called.

Right, I wasn't on the game but it was a solid 10-15 seconds which seems like forever when you are looking at the kid. Additionally, the situation could most likely be prevented by the official telling the kid "Get on the court"

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

Player A1 dribbles into the lane and jumps for a try. Player B2 jumps to block the shot. Player A2 is between B2 and the basket facing the basket, Player A1 realizes his shot is going to be blocked throws the ball at A2s back. The ball hits A2s back and bonces back to A1 while his is still in the air and he catches the ball. A1 lands dribbles to the basket and scores. Legal Play? Basically the bonce off A2s back is considered a pass and a pass back?


So this next situation actually also happened in a camp and the D1 clinician wasn't sure of the rule. Would like the NCAA rule and high school rule if possible.

A1 has the ball out of bounds near the basket for a front court spot throw in. A1 passes the ball in bounds and then stays in his spot out bounds. A good 10-15 seconds pass while team A is still in control in the front court and A1 is still at the point of the throw in standing out of bounds. Is he required to return to the court at the conclusion of the throw in at any time period?

Thanks

1. Legal play. Players jump into the air and throw a pass all the time. One or two of them are bound to get deflected back to the original player.
2. Really? A D1 clinician doesn't know that rule?!?! You should get a refund of your camp fee due to instructor incompetence.

Originally Posted by sdoebler

Right, I wasn't on the game but it was a solid 10-15 seconds which seems like forever when you are looking at the kid. Additionally, the situation could most likely be prevented by the official telling the kid "Get on the court"

It's not the official's job to instruct the player. That is not preventative officiating. This player has already committed an infraction. The official should simply make the call.

[ilyazhito]

That shouldn't happen, but if he does, this is a technical foul for leaving the court for an unauthorized reason. This would be the same in NCAA, because "out of bounds by his own volition" specifically refers to a situation where such out-of-bounds player comes back in to receive the ball. Even if there is no specific rule against staying out of bounds at other levels, I would use the "leaving the court for an unauthorized reason" rule to penalize the player. It would be surprising if a coach doesn't notice that his player stayed out of bounds, but this is a situation where being stupid is a crime (laughter).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

... technical foul for leaving the court for an unauthorized reason.

Be careful here. According to NFHS rules, "Purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds", is not the same as "leave the court for an unauthorized reason". The former is a technical foul, usually (but not always) associated with a throwin situation, the latter is a violation usually associated with situations involving play action (using a screen by running out of bounds).

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

That shouldn't happen, but if he does, this is a technical foul for leaving the court for an unauthorized reason.

Being OOB to be the inbounder isn't an authorized reason? Lah me.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

That shouldn't happen, but if he does, this is a technical foul for leaving the court for an unauthorized reason. This would be the same in NCAA, because "out of bounds by his own volition" specifically refers to a situation where such out-of-bounds player comes back in to receive the ball. Even if there is no specific rule against staying out of bounds at other levels, I would use the "leaving the court for an unauthorized reason" rule to penalize the player. It would be surprising if a coach doesn't notice that his player stayed out of bounds, but this is a situation where being stupid is a crime (laughter).

I hope that you are referring to FIBA or NBA rules, with which I'm not familiar, because you are incorrect for both NFHS and NCAA. Those rule citations have already been posted in this thread.

[sdoebler]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It's not the official's job to instruct the player. That is not preventative officiating. This player has already committed an infraction. The official should simply make the call.

I would have to disagree here, it is much better for the game to tell the kid to get on the court then to go through that violation and penalty administration.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

I would have to disagree here, it is much better for the game to tell the kid to get on the court then to go through that violation and penalty administration.

Since, in crafting your perception of a "better game", you're taking a "Cafeteria Approach" to which rules you are going to enforce and which you are going to ignore, please list them and leave the list in the locker room so that I know what I'm getting into when I'm doing the next game.

Am I understanding this correctly?

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

I would have to disagree here, it is much better for the game to tell the kid to get on the court then to go through that violation and penalty administration.

That approach would likely get you blocked as a partner by 95% of the quality officials on this forum.

What a hack..

[sdoebler]

You guys must not have worked games in a long time if you think that calling a T for not getting on the court fast enough is going to put you in a better place with your partners. You have it backwards on who would be blocked when you are constantly nit picking at the rule book when you have options to have better game flow.

List of rules we aren't going to follow, sorry how many times have you administered this rule?

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

You guys must not have worked games in a long time if you think that calling a T for not getting on the court fast enough is going to put you in a better place with your partners. You have it backwards on who would be blocked when you are constantly nit picking at the rule book when you have options to have better game flow.

List of rules we aren't going to follow, sorry how many times have you administered this rule?

Each and every time the situation presented itself.
That's called consistency, on both ends of the court and always in accordance with applicable rules.

[Freddy]

Rule 10-4-2

I was there when this was called. The coach knew why the player T was issued. No problem having it called here.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

... how many times have you administered this rule?

Purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds?

I only had the opportunity once in almost four decades of officiating. It was a middle school game and the inbounder caught me off guard, I hadn't expected him to do delay as long as he did, so I didn't sound my whistle for a technical foul. I think that he was just watching the action, and was not being deceitful, nor did his team gain an advantage, in fact, just the opposite, his team was disadvantaged in a four against five situation. I noted the player's number and the next time we were both in the same situation I reminded him that it would be technical foul if he delayed as he a previously done. Of course he didn't know the rule. I did tell him that I would nail him with a technical the next time he did it. He didn't do it again.

Intent and purpose? Advantage and disadvantage? I lost no sleep over passing on the technical foul.

Leaving the court for an unauthorized reason?

Only observed it being called once in almost four decades. Boys varsity game. I'm the lead and an offensive player almost runs into me as he runs out of bounds after using a back door screen. I say to myself, "He can't do that, I'm going to nail him with a violation the next time they run that play". We eventually make our way down to the other end of the court, where a foul is called, so my partner and I switch. Several seconds later where back down the original end of the court, but now I'm the trail and my partner is the lead. The team runs the same play and my partner calls the violation, without any communication between us regarding the call. It was the first time he ever called it, that's how blatant it was. Of course it took a few minutes to explain it to the coach.

[ODog]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

You guys must not have worked games in a long time if you think that calling a T for not getting on the court fast enough is going to put you in a better place with your partners. You have it backwards on who would be blocked ...

Agreed.

Obviously the 10-15 seconds of the OP is absurd and an EASY technical, but generally speaking, TONS of teams run inbounds plays on the endline where the inbounder purposely delays and then pops in to receive the return pass. We've all seen it 100s of times.

And as the administering official, you can see it coming a mile away. Your choices are:
1.) Call the rules-based T and then prepare to explain that rule to the coach/player, since fewer than 5 percent of them (and all of the fans … not relevant, but nonetheless) realize this is an illegal tactic.
2.) Say "Come right inbounds" (or something similar) to the inbounder once it's clear that's his plan. I do this all the time. It works 99 out of 100 times and prevents the mess. For the one kid who doesn't listen AND subsequently receives the inbounds pass, you call the T and are also armed with the fact you tried to save him when the coach prepares to rip your head off.

FWIW, I would have no T in the video posted. In my judgment, not purposeful or deceitful, and he never even became part of the play.

I'm with sdoebler on this one. Those who aren't must call a looootttttt of 3-seconds violations in their games.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by ODog

Agreed.

Obviously the 10-15 seconds of the OP is absurd and an EASY technical, but generally speaking, TONS of teams run inbounds plays on the endline where the inbounder purposely delays and then pops in to receive the return pass. We've all seen it 100s of times.

And as the administering official, you can see it coming a mile away. Your choices are:
1.) Call the rules-based T and then prepare to explain that rule to the coach/player, since fewer than 5 percent of them (and all of the fans … not relevant, but nonetheless) realize this is an illegal tactic.
2.) Say "Come right inbounds" (or something similar) to the inbounder once it's clear that's his plan. I do this all the time. It works 99 out of 100 times and prevents the mess. For the one kid who doesn't listen AND subsequently receives the inbounds pass, you call the T and are also armed with the fact you tried to save him when the coach prepares to rip your head off.

FWIW, I would have no T in the video posted. In my judgment, not purposeful or deceitful, and he never even became part of the play.

I'm with sdoebler on this one. Those who aren't must call a looootttttt of 3-seconds violations in their games.

So much over-statement that response is difficult to muster.