NFHS Update

[SC Official]

I never really had an issue with this rule when it came to coaches. In the event that one did complain, it went something like this:

“But the ball was tipped!”
“Yes, Coach, but your player was the last to touch it.” That almost always ended the dispute.

That being said, I don’t really have any issue with this change. Deflection = anyone can touch it. Easy enough.

Another year, another rules update without the shot clock. Just the way it should be.

[The_Rookie]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I never really had an issue with this rule when it came to coaches. In the event that one did complain, it went something like this:

“But the ball was tipped!”
“Yes, Coach, but your player was the last to touch it.” That almost always ended the dispute.

That being said, I don’t really have any issue with this change. Deflection = anyone can touch it. Easy enough.

Another year, another rules update without the shot clock. Just the way it should be.

Eight States currently use a shot clock, why all the resistance since shot clock is used at all other higher levels of basketball?

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

Eight States currently use a shot clock, why all the resistance since shot clock is used at all other higher levels of basketball?

Eight states forfeited their voice on the rules committee, as well.

It's a solution in search of a problem at the high school level. It won't make bad basketball any better; it will just make it worse.

You can't compare the high school level to higher levels on this issue. Most high school players (not to mention wreck ball players, where the leagues also use NFHS rules) are not playing at the next level, so quite frankly it's not the NFHS's job to prepare players for those levels. Also, there are enough bad tables at lower level colleges–you really want to add a shot clock into the responsibilities of already bad tables at the varsity level all the way down to wreck ball?

I could go on.

[ilyazhito]

Administrators. No shot clock was proposed this year, but I wouldn't be surprised to see one coming in the next few years, once the old guard of administrators retire.

Why would administrators not want a shot clock? Money is one factor (ADs would have to pay for the shot clock, and would have to use a combination of state (or local) tax money and booster club money to do so), and change is another one. Administrators are used to basketball without a shot clock, so it is their normal. They may not know (or care) about basketball at other levels having a shot clock (and being better for it, IMO). Even if they do know, they may be uncomfortable "rocking the boat" to change high school basketball in their state, or nationally, unless there is enough demand from their state to make them feel uncomfortable. MD, NY, MA, CA, WA, DC, RI, ND, and SD have all had demands from coaches to adopt the shot clock, and have adopted it. IL, WI, and other states are considering it, as seen in news articles on the internet. I have been told by an anonymous source that officials and coaches on the NFHS committee are overwhelmingly in support of the shot clock, but administrators are against it. If the rules committee has significant membership changes, then it would not be surprising to see NFHS adopting a shot clock. In the meantime, keep sending proposals to your local state rules interpreters if you want shot clocks, changes to the bonus rule, etc.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Administrators. No shot clock was proposed this year, but I wouldn't be surprised to see one coming in the next few years, once the old guard of administrators retire.

Why would administrators not want a shot clock? Money is one factor (ADs would have to pay for the shot clock, and would have to use a combination of state (or local) tax money and booster club money to do so), and change is another one. Administrators are used to basketball without a shot clock, so it is their normal. They may not know (or care) about basketball at other levels having a shot clock (and being better for it, IMO). Even if they do know, they may be uncomfortable "rocking the boat" to change high school basketball in their state, or nationally, unless there is enough demand from their state to make them feel uncomfortable. MD, NY, MA, CA, WA, DC, RI, ND, and SD have all had demands from coaches to adopt the shot clock, and have adopted it. IL, WI, and other states are considering it, as seen in news articles on the internet. I have been told by an anonymous source that officials and coaches on the NFHS committee are overwhelmingly in support of the shot clock, but administrators are against it. If the rules committee has significant membership changes, then it would not be surprising to see NFHS adopting a shot clock. In the meantime, keep sending proposals to your local state rules interpreters if you want shot clocks, changes to the bonus rule, etc.

WI is not considering it at the moment. They adopted it and the administrator backlash was so severe, they rescinded it.

As long as administrators are on the committee to keep coaches in check, it won't go national.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

MD, NY, MA, CA, WA, DC, RI, ND, and SD have all had demands from coaches to adopt the shot clock, and have adopted it. IL, WI, and other states are considering it, as seen in news articles on the internet. I have been told by an anonymous source that officials and coaches on the NFHS committee are overwhelmingly in support of the shot clock, but administrators are against it. If the rules committee has significant membership changes, then it would not be surprising to see NFHS adopting a shot clock. In the meantime, keep sending proposals to your local state rules interpreters if you want shot clocks, changes to the bonus rule, etc.

You are actually very wrong about Illinois. Illinois was not the usage of the shot clock this outside of the NF. All that was discussed is it was possible and there were people in the know that thought this "could pass" this year. It did not pass, so I would suspect the IHSA would not do anything outside of these rules changes this year. It is not the IHSA's style to do such a thing this drastic. And if the shot clock came into play in the NF Rules this year, the IHSA said it would not have been this coming year (that was stated to clinicians throughout the state) because of cost primarily. Not a major problem in this state. Many of the top teams play an uptempo style and score in the 50s and 60s is not unusual (at least on the boy's side).

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Administrators. No shot clock was proposed this year, but I wouldn't be surprised to see one coming in the next few years, once the old guard of administrators retire.

Statements much like this have been made for 20+ years. No change yet. At some point, you will likely be right.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Statements much like this have been made for 20+ years. No change yet. At some point, you will likely be right.

The funny part about what people assume is the "old guard" they do not realize that what keeps people in administrative roles are often what kept others in administrative roles. An Athletic Director, for example, is not going to get along suggesting to spend more money and resources just because of something another level does. That is the kind of thing that might get you removed from your position if things do not work out.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The funny part about what people assume is the "old guard" they do not realize that what keeps people in administrative roles are often what kept others in administrative roles. An Athletic Director, for example, is not going to get along suggesting to spend more money and resources just because of something another level does. That is the kind of thing that might get you removed from your position if things do not work out.

Peace

The athletic director sees the bigger picture. The principal sees a bigger picture. The superintendent sees the biggest picture.

I can tell you that once WI passed the shot clock (temporarily) it did not take long for all 24 of the athletic directors in the conference I'm the commissioner of to unanimously oppose it.

I'll be surprised if this is something that goes national while I'm still involved.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Administrators. No shot clock was proposed this year, but I wouldn't be surprised to see one coming in the next few years, once the old guard of administrators retire.

Why would administrators not want a shot clock? Money is one factor (ADs would have to pay for the shot clock, and would have to use a combination of state (or local) tax money and booster club money to do so), and change is another one. Administrators are used to basketball without a shot clock, so it is their normal. They may not know (or care) about basketball at other levels having a shot clock (and being better for it, IMO). Even if they do know, they may be uncomfortable "rocking the boat" to change high school basketball in their state, or nationally, unless there is enough demand from their state to make them feel uncomfortable. MD, NY, MA, CA, WA, DC, RI, ND, and SD have all had demands from coaches to adopt the shot clock, and have adopted it. IL, WI, and other states are considering it, as seen in news articles on the internet. I have been told by an anonymous source that officials and coaches on the NFHS committee are overwhelmingly in support of the shot clock, but administrators are against it. If the rules committee has significant membership changes, then it would not be surprising to see NFHS adopting a shot clock. In the meantime, keep sending proposals to your local state rules interpreters if you want shot clocks, changes to the bonus rule, etc.

The "old guard" has changed multiple times over the past couple decades where the shot clock has been put on the table every spring, and guess what? It still hasn't been implemented. These cries for a high school shot clock are not new; the same complaints existed 10-20 years ago.

I also highly doubt high school officials are "overwhelmingly in support of the shot clock." Also, since when are officials on the rules committee? I also doubt the same for coaches; a majority might want the shot clock, but I doubt it's "overwhelming." I think you might need to look for a new source.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by SC Official

The "old guard" has changed multiple times over the past couple decades where the shot clock has been put on the table every spring, and guess what? It still hasn't been implemented. These cries for a high school shot clock are not new; the same complaints existed 10-20 years ago.

What happens in many areas of life is that when the old guard fades away and the new generation takes over, that new generation has, by that time, become a lot wiser and realizes that some of the things the old guard did were actually not so bad, even good.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

Eight States currently use a shot clock, why all the resistance since shot clock is used at all other higher levels of basketball?

Completely unnecessary...will make more games worse than it will make better.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by SC Official

That being said, I don’t really have any issue with this change. Deflection = anyone can touch it. Easy enough.

I don't believe that is what they're saying. Maybe it is, but I think we'll have to see when the actual rule comes out.

I think they may be just correcting the erroneous interpretation that has been out for a few years. A deflection by B that goes directly to A who is already in the backcourt shouldn't have ever been considered a violation but someone on the committee that is apparently ESL thought it was. Now they're changing a rule to mean what it always meant.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I don't believe that is what they're saying. Maybe it is, but I think we'll have to see when the actual rule comes out.

I think they may be just correcting the erroneous interpretation that has been out for a few years. A deflection by B that goes directly to A who is already in the backcourt shouldn't have ever been considered a violation but someone on the committee that is apparently ESL thought it was. Now they're changing a rule to mean what it always meant.

It appears they went to the NCAA Rule that was changed last year.

I am cautious that we do not know what is official until we see the final rule (Someone said it takes the NF 3 years to get a rule right), but they seemed to take the NCAA language in describing the rule change. Because if they are trying to advocate a previous mistake, then they could do that editorially, not with a rules change.

Time will ultimately tell. You certainly gave me pause, but I do not see how this is not the NCAA change that was made last year?

Peace

[Pantherdreams]

As someone who has thumped the shot clock drum in various means and capacities I can tell you its not an old guard vs youth movement issue.

Its logistic vs sentiment/philosophy.

All arguments for the shot clock have to do with changing the way the game is played, aligning it with other levels, preparing kids to play, giving kids autonomy, making it a play making type game vs a coach controlled game etc. List goes on and on but its basically basketball as a community and a concept moving in a different direction, that is benefited by a a shot clock.

All arguments against the shot clock are practical ones. Budgetary concerns, coaching concerns, table issues etc. Logistical and practical problems that people cannot/ do not feel they should have to overcome in their position.

The reality is that so long as AD's and coaches jobs/livelihoods/paychecks are tied to effective management of their team/programs and success a majority will not be in favour of the shot clock. The shot clock increases responsibilities and costs while altering styles of play and game management for coaches, players, officials, and staff. It eliminates potential strategies and coach control. IT requires coaches to coach differently. Shot clocks are asking AD's and coaches for the "good of the game" to take on logistical and fundamental differences to how they operate, when operational complications can cost them their jobs.

They are not going to do those things for philosophical reasons in most cases.