Camp Reviews/Info? Sticky?

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Except for when Ed T. Rush was supervisor for the PAC-12, I haven't seen or read about a D1 camp that is not a meat market.

Conferences pay supervisors to hire and manage a staff.

Tournament directors are paying supervisors to provide officials for their off-season games.

We are paying supervisors exorbitant amounts of money for the "privilege" to work their off-season games and for a job interview in which we interact with the supervisor no more than 5-10 minutes the entire weekend.

Is it the same way in D3 basketball? If it is, the scale of meat market behavior might be less, but I could be mistaken. AFAIK, CBOA (the men's college basketball association on the east coast) uses an application process rather than a specific recruiting camp, so how are officials seen for that, and similar organizations, if they do not host tryout camps?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Is it the same way in D3 basketball? If it is, the scale of meat market behavior might be less, but I could be mistaken. AFAIK, CBOA (the men's college basketball association on the east coast) uses an application process rather than a specific recruiting camp, so how are officials seen for that, and similar organizations, if they do not host tryout camps?

Lower level college is very different based on where you are in the country or who assigns it. If a D1 supervisor assigns a lower level college league, they might use that as a stepping stone to their league. Now there are all these consortium arrangments where conferences like the BIG use the lower level leagues to help filter officials to the D1 leagues.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Is it the same way in D3 basketball? If it is, the scale of meat market behavior might be less, but I could be mistaken. AFAIK, CBOA (the men's college basketball association on the east coast) uses an application process rather than a specific recruiting camp, so how are officials seen for that, and similar organizations, if they do not host tryout camps?

I’ve never heard of the CBOA but it’s likely just an educational/professional organization and not one that has any assigning functions. “Association” has many different meanings in officiating.

College games are often assigned very differently from high school (depending on which state you work high school in). You’re not going to get a college schedule of any significance without going to camp, no matter the level. For D3, just in this thread there have been postings about the Super Camp in Richmond. There’s also a JUCO camp discussed in this thread.

[Player989random]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Is it the same way in D3 basketball? If it is, the scale of meat market behavior might be less, but I could be mistaken. AFAIK, CBOA (the men's college basketball association on the east coast) uses an application process rather than a specific recruiting camp, so how are officials seen for that, and similar organizations, if they do not host tryout camps?

CBOA is an organization whose main claim to fame is the fact that they offer great officiating insurance at a cheap cost. However, not everyone on the East Coast who officiates college ball is required to be a member of it. I know that from Maine to Pennsylvania most assignors are members of it, however Ebersole isn't. And that man has a TON of games.

You don't need to worry about CBOA until you actually get picked up in a conference.

[ilyazhito]

I thought CBOA was a bona fide association, like MBOA or Board 12, that sent assignments through Arbiter (or another website) to its members. This means I'll have to go to Ebersole's camp, or whatever camps MAC (the DIII conference), Centennial, Landmark, etc., use to recruit officials, if I want to work college basketball.

If I started a camp, I'd have classroom sessions and games for both those who want to attend a teaching camp, and those who want to try out for my conference. This way, both those who want to learn more about officiating and those who want to attend to try out would be able to gain a positive learning experience. Existing staff would be able to attend at a discount (or for free, if they have other discounts, or get a scholarship). The only difference between "students" and "candidates" would be that candidates would be evaluated and considered for jobs, whereas "students" would just be evaluated. Candidates (those who try out) and students (those who want to attend a teaching camp) would pay the same fee, and would indicate if they want to try out in their application. Candidates would also have a separate meeting about conference logistics, how they would be informed, etc.

I would also ask the tournament director to have the games follow college rules as much as possible (to get candidates experience working college-type games with college mechanics), if my camp was associated with a college conference. For those not familiar with college, I would explain the major rules/mechanics differences at the start of the first day, and include reminders in the informational packet/notes for my campers to reference.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I thought CBOA was a bona fide association, like MBOA or Board 12, that sent assignments through Arbiter (or another website) to its members. This means I'll have to go to Ebersole's camp, or whatever camps MAC (the DIII conference), Centennial, Landmark, etc., use to recruit officials, if I want to work college basketball.

If I started a camp, I'd have classroom sessions and games for both those who want to attend a teaching camp, and those who want to try out for my conference. This way, both those who want to learn more about officiating and those who want to attend to try out would be able to gain a positive learning experience. Existing staff would be able to attend at a discount (or for free, if they have other discounts, or get a scholarship). The only difference between "students" and "candidates" would be that candidates would be evaluated and considered for jobs, whereas "students" would just be evaluated. Candidates (those who try out) and students (those who want to attend a teaching camp) would pay the same fee, and would indicate if they want to try out in their application. Candidates would also have a separate meeting about conference logistics, how they would be informed, etc.

I would also ask the tournament director to have the games follow college rules as much as possible (to get candidates experience working college-type games with college mechanics), if my camp was associated with a college conference. For those not familiar with college, I would explain the major rules/mechanics differences at the start of the first day, and include reminders in the informational packet/notes for my campers to reference.

Supervisors aren't really concerned about rules differences when running their camps. They also don't need to look at you more than 5-10 minutes to decide if they are interested in hiring you.

[ilyazhito]

That's surprising, because supervisors are hiring officials for a specific task: officiating men's (or women's) college basketball. An official moving from D3 to D2 or D1, or laterally (from another area of the country) is familiar with how college basketball works, but someone who has never worked college basketball may only know what is printed in the "major rules differences" table in the NFHS or NCAA rulebooks. Thus, a new (er) college official may make mistakes by calling a high school rule in a college game (e.g. closely guarded on a dribble), which could be embarrassing if they happened in a regular-season game. Challenging an official to work out of his comfort zone (using college rules for a high school official) can also assess how good an official is at thinking on his feet, and how quick of a learner he is.

I could see your point, if supervisors just assessed a prospect very generally at camps (does he look like an official, can he move on the court, can he officiate), and then teach more specific stuff at scrimmages to whoever gets hired to the staff that year.

How would I find out which college supervisors have camps and are hiring, if, a few years down the road, I wanted to do the Landmark, or Centennial Conference, or MAC? I know that PhillyRef lists camps, but is stuff like who's hiring or where to go public knowledge for officials?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

....

How would I find out which college supervisors have camps and are hiring, if, a few years down the road, I wanted to do the Landmark, or Centennial Conference, or MAC? I know that PhillyRef lists camps, but is stuff like who's hiring or where to go public knowledge for officials?

If a camp is run by a college supervisor, it's a hiring camp, no matter what platitudes are printed in the brochures. You need to (on your own) learn who the college supervisors are in your area of travel. There is no magic starter kit.

Where you live, you need to concentrate on Tim Ebersole and Donnie Eppley for entry level to the college world. If you can travel a little bit, then add Gregg Bennett (ODAC/D3 Super Camp) to that list.

As I have stated before, for the best instructional camps, you need to go to a camp run by NBA officials. If you want training and some insight to what the college world will be like, then D3 Super Camp would be good for you. If you are strictly trying to get hired, then Ebersole/Eppley.

If you have a budget you are trying to adhere to, stay away from D1 camps b/c they are all going to run you at least $500, plus most likely lodging.

You want my personal advice for this off-season. Attend a HS camp affiliated with Al Battista (MBOA/BD12?) and Joey Crawford's Villanova camp (same weekend as D3 Super Camp). Then find another affordable camp. Don't do more than 3 camps.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Supervisors aren't really concerned about rules differences when running their camps. They also don't need to look at you more than 5-10 minutes to decide if they are interested in hiring you.

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I thought CBOA was a bona fide association, like MBOA or Board 12, that sent assignments through Arbiter (or another website) to its members. This means I'll have to go to Ebersole's camp, or whatever camps MAC (the DIII conference), Centennial, Landmark, etc., use to recruit officials, if I want to work college basketball.

If I started a camp, I'd have classroom sessions and games for both those who want to attend a teaching camp, and those who want to try out for my conference. This way, both those who want to learn more about officiating and those who want to attend to try out would be able to gain a positive learning experience. Existing staff would be able to attend at a discount (or for free, if they have other discounts, or get a scholarship). The only difference between "students" and "candidates" would be that candidates would be evaluated and considered for jobs, whereas "students" would just be evaluated. Candidates (those who try out) and students (those who want to attend a teaching camp) would pay the same fee, and would indicate if they want to try out in their application. Candidates would also have a separate meeting about conference logistics, how they would be informed, etc.

I would also ask the tournament director to have the games follow college rules as much as possible (to get candidates experience working college-type games with college mechanics), if my camp was associated with a college conference. For those not familiar with college, I would explain the major rules/mechanics differences at the start of the first day, and include reminders in the informational packet/notes for my campers to reference.

Well, the Big Ten Men's Consortium Camp uses full NCAA rules for its games (the only exception to that is the restricted area). I got that information from an official from Indiana who was invited to attend by Larry Scirotto (disclosure: he did not work any games, but he observed those who did). This official also told me that 32 campers were sent home for not stopping the game clock when calling fouls and violations, which is a point of emphasis in NFHS and NCAAM basketball. If the Big Ten uses NCAA rules for its camp, I wouldn't be surprised if other DI camps also used NCAA rules.

Perhaps the Big Ten Consortium Camp does this because the officials who attend it are already familiar with NCAA rules from working JUCO, NAIA, DIII ,and DII games, but it would not be a bad idea to expose officials at a JUCO/DIII camp to college rules, and see how they apply those rules in game situations. It will allow evaluators to see how willing and able are the officials at camp to learn new rules, apply them, and think on their feet in unfamiliar situations (using NCAA rules for a HS official).

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

That's surprising, because supervisors are hiring officials for a specific task: officiating men's (or women's) college basketball. An official moving from D3 to D2 or D1, or laterally (from another area of the country) is familiar with how college basketball works, but someone who has never worked college basketball may only know what is printed in the "major rules differences" table in the NFHS or NCAA rulebooks. Thus, a new (er) college official may make mistakes by calling a high school rule in a college game (e.g. closely guarded on a dribble), which could be embarrassing if they happened in a regular-season game. Challenging an official to work out of his comfort zone (using college rules for a high school official) can also assess how good an official is at thinking on his feet, and how quick of a learner he is.

I could see your point, if supervisors just assessed a prospect very generally at camps (does he look like an official, can he move on the court, can he officiate), and then teach more specific stuff at scrimmages to whoever gets hired to the staff that year.

How would I find out which college supervisors have camps and are hiring, if, a few years down the road, I wanted to do the Landmark, or Centennial Conference, or MAC? I know that PhillyRef lists camps, but is stuff like who's hiring or where to go public knowledge for officials?

I hire for HS varsity games. I assign about 350 games a season -- about 200 of them boys games.

I couldn't give a squat about how well an official knows the closely guarded rule or how well he/she uses proper HS mechanics.

I care about 2 things -- can that person get calls right at the level I'm hiring him/her for and can that person deal with coaches.

I spent most of this season injured -- I had knee surgery last week. I went to a number of games and watched people work. In 5 minutes, I typically knew all I needed to know about an official. Just like they do at most college camps.

[Player989random]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

If I started a camp, I'd have classroom sessions and games for both those who want to attend a teaching camp, and those who want to try out for my conference. This way, both those who want to learn more about officiating and those who want to attend to try out would be able to gain a positive learning experience. Existing staff would be able to attend at a discount (or for free, if they have other discounts, or get a scholarship). The only difference between "students" and "candidates" would be that candidates would be evaluated and considered for jobs, whereas "students" would just be evaluated. Candidates (those who try out) and students (those who want to attend a teaching camp) would pay the same fee, and would indicate if they want to try out in their application. Candidates would also have a separate meeting about conference logistics, how they would be informed, etc.

Brah, that's almost exactly what the average camp is. There's just no difference between "students" and "candidates", cause if a student is good enough to work, he gets hired.

And listen to Raymond. His advice is what everyone here has been pushing for the past 2 pages.

[ilyazhito]

Back to the OP, people have made posts about camps in different areas of the country, including the West Coast, Southeast, and the DC Metro Area. I'm surprised that no one else has posted reviews of the Level One Basketball Officials camp that Que'z Crawford has run, but maybe it is just such a recent thing that very few people have heard about it. Maybe other people can post about other regions that aren't so well covered (The Midwest, Great Lakes, Pacific Northwest, etc.).

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I thought CBOA was a bona fide association, like MBOA or Board 12, that sent assignments through Arbiter (or another website) to its members.

You are confusing CBOA's. The one you are thinking of is the local board, Cardinal Basketball Officials Association, that assigns HS ball throughout Northern VA.

[ilyazhito]

I was thinking that the College Basketball Officials Association was a bona fide association. That was the CBOA I meant, not the Cardinal Basketball Officials Association (AKA IAABO Board 255) or the California Basketball Officials Association. I thought that the college CBOA assigned games, so I might get the following schedule in the future:
Date Group Type/Level Position Time Site
Monday MBOA WCAC Girls V U1 6:30 PM Bishop O'Connell
Tuesday CBOA Centennial U2 7:00 PM Hood College
Wednesday MBOA DCIAA JV R 4:00 PM Eastern HS
Wednesday MBOA DCIAA Boys Varsity U1 8:00 PM Eastern HS
Thursday Board 12 MCPS JV U1 5:15 PM Richard Montgomery HS
Thursday Board 12 MCPS V U2 7:00 PM Richard Montgomery HS
Friday CBOA MAC U1 7:00 PM Stevenson University
Saturday CBOA Centennial U1 1:00 PM McDaniel College

Returning to the OP, I would have expected more people to have made posts reviewing camps in other areas of the country, as I have made a review of Que'z Crawford's Level One Basketball Officials Camp.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Returning to the OP, I would have expected more people to have made posts reviewing camps in other areas of the country, as I have made a review of Que'z Crawford's Level One Basketball Officials Camp.

How many times are you going to say this?