Can an NCAA Basketball Official Work Both Sexes?

[ilyazhito]

OK. Now I know that it isn't possible to work both sexes unless there is an emergency situation, whether for JUCO, DIII, DII, or DI. I've watched video of junior college and DIII women's college games, and I'm not impressed with the quality of play (it doesn't appear to me to be better than varsity level). Even though women's officials are good varsity officials, I would still be more interested in working men's ball. If things work out next year, I'll be trying out for Donnie Eppley, Tim Ebersole, and possibly Gregg Bennett on the men's side.

[JRutledge]

Well, at least you are narrowing it down. That has to mean something.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

OK. Now I know that it isn't possible to work both sexes unless there is an emergency situation, whether for JUCO, DIII, DII, or DI. I've watched video of junior college and DIII women's college games, and I'm not impressed with the quality of play (it doesn't appear to me to be better than varsity level). Even though women's officials are good varsity officials, I would still be more interested in working men's ball. If things work out next year, I'll be trying out for Donnie Eppley, Tim Ebersole, and possibly Gregg Bennett on the men's side.

I can't speak to women's D3/JUCO versus high school. But if you get hired for small college on the men's side, you're likely going to have quite a few games where you won't be impressed with the quality of play.

I hear so many officials complain about "bad basketball" from 5A varsity games to college games, boys/men and girls/women. I sometimes wonder what their standard for "good basketball" is.

And sometimes those "bad basketball" games are where you get better because often more whacky stuff happens in those kinds of games.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I can't speak to women's D3/JUCO versus high school. But if you get hired for small college on the men's side, you're likely going to have quite a few games where you won't be impressed with the quality of play.

Any college game on the Men's side at least has faster, bigger and stronger players. Even if you have a D1 player or two at the HS level, that is still a step up to work a JUCO (which are often D1 players but for some reason are not there) are much faster than any HS game. Again at the HS level, you might be dealing with one or two players that are even college players. In a college game, all those players were likely the better players of their team. Where you might have one or two players that can play at or above the rim consistently, you likely will have 10 players on the floor that could play at the rim even in a D3 game. I say all of this because you might not get the atmosphere as a high school game working lower level college basketball, but the athleticism is still better. Even if they play a little disjointed or not as organized, they still can get up and down that court or make plays you might go several games seeing in a high school setting. That is still an adjustment for someone that does not work those games at that level. And it takes some getting used to having all the things going on in your head compute in such a fast way.

Peace

[SC Official]

Not in response to anyone, but I know multiple women's college or former women's college officials that I'd much rather work high level boys HS games with than some of the men's/former men's officials I see. The idea I hear sometimes that "you can't go between genders because the games are too different" is ludicrous. We work doubleheaders in South Carolina, and the best officials (including the college officials) that I work with are equally adept at both genders. The only ones that are competent at girls but overmatched in boys are the old farts that can't run and should have retired 10 years ago.

Quite frankly, I appreciate when I work with crews that will enforce FOM and the automatics and not ignore them because "it didn't affect anything." And the women's officials are better at that.

[ilyazhito]

Agreed. That is why I wanted (initially) to be able to work both men's and women's college basketball, just as I would want to work both boys and girls high school basketball. Unfortunately, that is impossible, so I choose the men's side. Perhaps men's officials are starting to catch on as well and call freedom of movement as consistently as the women's officials.

Speaking of FOM and the automatics, I am vigilant about calling handchecking, illegal screens, fouls against cutters, etc. whenever I have the chance to work 3-person games (and even in 2-person games), and I will try to put these habits into practice should I get (charter school) varsity games this year.

Washington, DC has an interesting way of scheduling public school basketball. Just like South Carolina has boys/girls doubleheaders, DC public schools have the JV game first at 4 PM (only boys have JV teams, probably due to budget issues), the girls varsity game at 6 PM, and the boys varsity game at 8 PM, so both boys and girls play at the same site in succession. One of the officials from the JV game stays to work either the girls or boys varsity game.

For private school girls games, I have experienced something similar. Usually, my partner for the JV game would work the following varsity game with 2 other officials (including my evaluator, for games where I was being evaluated).

I doubt that this arrangement would catch on at the college level, even if assigners were open to having officials on games independent of gender, because of the physical demands of working a college game (40 minutes requires more stamina, focus, and energy than 32 minutes), whether with women or with men.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

...

I doubt that this arrangement would catch on at the college level, even if assigners were open to having officials on games independent of gender, because of the physical demands of working a college game (40 minutes requires more stamina, focus, and energy than 32 minutes), whether with women or with men.

Focus. Focus on you and what you can control. Quit worrying about the machinations of what supervisors can or cannot/will or will not do.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Not in response to anyone, but I know multiple women's college or former women's college officials that I'd much rather work high level boys HS games with than some of the men's/former men's officials I see. The idea I hear sometimes that "you can't go between genders because the games are too different" is ludicrous.

Well if you do work doubleheaders and you are forced to work both genders, then that is a different situation than officials like our area that are not forced and often not asked to do both genders. We have boys assignors that will not use primarily girls officials for varsity boys games. And we have enough officials in basketball, this is not even an issue. And if you work any other level, you will not get officials out to work both either. Games of both genders are rarely held on the same night.

I think working both is hard and as I said before it is not about it being hard, but understanding the cultures of both. I have said before that the culture of girls basketball is much different than working boys basketball. And I am sure that contrast is much different if you are not seeing the same game on the same night. It may work better in areas like yours, but in mine, this is often a disaster. Because many boys officials are used to a faster, higher and stronger game. The coaches do not want you calling any little contact that takes place that seems very acceptable in girls games. And girls officials are usually older, slower and not as experienced. Just heard of a story of a kid in college being hired by a big-time assignor in college and he barely stopped playing HS ball himself. But someone thinks that is a good idea to work college, which will help him work a HS schedule for girls he would never see that soon on the boys side. Not saying he could not do it, but there are more of those stories in women's college than I ever hear on the Men's or boys side of basketball (around here).

Originally Posted by SC Official

We work doubleheaders in South Carolina, and the best officials (including the college officials) that I work with are equally adept at both genders. The only ones that are competent at girls but overmatched in boys are the old farts that can't run and should have retired 10 years ago.

I might work one basketball game a year on the girls side. I had two last year only because I worked in another state too for the first time last year. It was like working in a foreign country when I did a girls game. Girls coaches complained about the silliest stuff IMO. One team/coach thought there was so much trash talking that it was bothersome to them, where that interaction would have been not even a notice in many boys games I have worked in the past. And every time a girl would dribble through three people and lose the ball, you would have thought we committed highway robbery by not calling a foul when no defender did anything wrong. And all of that IMO is because they see officials that overreact to things that if you called to that extend

Originally Posted by SC Official

Quite frankly, I appreciate when I work with crews that will enforce FOM and the automatics and not ignore them because "it didn't affect anything." And the women's officials are better at that.

Well when I work with Men's college officials at the HS level, this is hardly ever a problem. They are used to and have been calling the game that way for years. It is the mostly HS officials that sometimes struggle with this, but this has been done for so long at the HS level, it is easy to call the game now IMO.

Peace

[SC Official]

I'm a former men's college official and hear far more complaints from boys coaches than girls coaches in my area. Now, whether that is just because the girls coaches don't care as much, or are just better behaved than the boys coaches, or some other reason, is up for debate (or maybe I suck). And female coaches almost never give me any trouble; when I have an issue with a girls coach it's almost always a male. I don't change the way I call the game; in the end I'm looking for advantage/disadvantage no matter what gender (plus the automatics). If I worked women's college maybe my philosophy would be different.

Just goes to show how different things are by area. As far as the SCHSL is concerned, basketball is basketball. Not saying that's right or wrong, but that's how it is in GA, NC, and SC. If girls and boys started playing on different nights here, the officials that got mostly girls games would raise hell.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I'm a former men's college official and hear far more complaints from boys coaches than girls coaches in my area. Now, whether that is just because the girls coaches don't care as much, or are just better behaved than the boys coaches, or some other reason, is up for debate (or maybe I suck). And female coaches almost never give me any trouble; when I have an issue with a girls coach it's almost always a male. I don't change the way I call the game; in the end I'm looking for advantage/disadvantage no matter what gender (plus the automatics). If I worked women's college maybe my philosophy would be different.

For the record, I am not saying that boys coaches do not complain. They complain big time in many areas. But the things they complain about are totally different. They will often tell their players to stop doing things that are the "automatics" that we are asked to call. If I call hand-checking they clearly support those calls and teach their players on the spot to stop doing those things. That is not the situation I am talking about. But if you call a foul on a blocked shot (when clearly not clean) or just make several calls they do not like, they can get silly too. I am just saying that girls coaches tend to get silly over when a girl falls and I have been asked so many times, "She did not fall on her own" where the same play would have the coach yelling at his player, "Get up and keep playing." It is as if the girls are fragile and cannot handle the contact of the game. I have even read where there is this attitude that girls are not playing basketball because the game is too rough. You never hear that position from boys or parents of boys.

Originally Posted by SC Official

Just goes to show how different things are by area. As far as the SCHSL is concerned, basketball is basketball. Not saying that's right or wrong, but that's how it is in GA, NC, and SC. If girls and boys started playing on different nights here, the officials that got mostly girls games would raise hell.

They tried to do that in several conferences here after a Title IX lawsuit. What was found was that even if the girls played the game first or second, people would either leave after the girls game or they would not come into the gym until the boys game was about to start. So they started playing at completely different times unless it was a rivalry where everyone would come out that night or afternoon. Also, tournaments are held in different places so the officials are not in the same places for the high profile events.

Peace