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  #91 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 06, 2018, 08:15pm
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I'll definitely ask Al. I also made the OP for the benefit of other officials in the same boat (either HS looking to transition to college, or officials looking for good information on long-term career perspectives) who may not have much information about what gender they want to work, and if that choice matters.
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 07, 2018, 02:35am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
I'll definitely ask Al. I also made the OP for the benefit of other officials in the same boat (either HS looking to transition to college, or officials looking for good information on long-term career perspectives) who may not have much information about what gender they want to work, and if that choice matters.
It's an individual decision based on individual factors. If there are folks here looking for that information they have asked in the past. You're not breaking any new ground here.

If you're looking to get better you need more conversations about what you're actually doing on the court and less conversations about speculation and Rule changes that you would like to see.

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  #93 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 07, 2018, 12:51pm
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The reality too is that this choice might be made for you on some level. If you get hired by one first, then you might not get the same opportunity at the other. You have to get hired by someone, not you choose where you are going to work.

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  #94 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 07, 2018, 01:09pm
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Theoretically Possible ...

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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
The reality too is that this choice might be made for you on some level. If you get hired by one first, then you might not get the same opportunity at the other. You have to get hired by someone, not you choose where you are going to work.
College basketball assigning is way outside my wheelhouse, but ...

Didn't JRutledge get hired for women's games first and the make the switch to men's games?

I'm not saying that it appears to be easy, or that it's going to happen for many, but it is theoretically within the realm of possibility? Right? And it's not that some should bet their house on it? Right?

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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Apr 07, 2018 at 01:16pm.
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 08, 2018, 06:44pm
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JRut, is the application process to CBOA on the East Coast, or to whatever the women's equivalent is, just a formality? If I apply to both men's and women's conference staffs, go to both sets of camps, and somehow get hired by both staffs, I can't work both?

AFAIK, Tim Ebersol assigns both men's and women's basketball for the Capital Athletic Conference, so would he react negatively if I showed interest in doing both? Would the men's assigners look askance at me if they know that I went to women's camps, and vice versa?
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 08, 2018, 07:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
JRut, is the application process to CBOA on the East Coast, or to whatever the women's equivalent is, just a formality? If I apply to both men's and women's conference staffs, go to both sets of camps, and somehow get hired by both staffs, I can't work both?

AFAIK, Tim Ebersol assigns both men's and women's basketball for the Capital Athletic Conference, so would he react negatively if I showed interest in doing both? Would the men's assigners look askance at me if they know that I went to women's camps, and vice versa?


Tim assigns both sides of CAC now? If true, that’s new. ‘Twas not the case when I went to their tryout camp at York back in 2014.

When I went to that camp, we had to declare what side we were trying out for. Once you did, the evaluators on the other side simply stopped paying attention to you.

Al Batista introduced himself to me at that camp. It didn’t end up amounting to anything because I don’t have the life space to commit to pursuing a G-League pipe dream. But the attention was flattering!


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  #97 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 08, 2018, 07:16pm
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Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
Tim assigns both sides of CAC now? If true, that’s new. ‘Twas not the case when I went to their tryout camp at York back in 2014.

When I went to that camp, we had to declare what side we were trying out for. Once you did, the evaluators on the other side simply stopped paying attention to you.
He got the CAC last summer. Assigns both Men's and Women's staffs.

As for which to apply for: Yes, you pick one, and if you get in you get in. You can't work both. Too many rules differences and mechanics. I wouldn't tell people you went to both Men's and Women's camps. I don't know why, but people have told me that.
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2018, 09:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
JRut, is the application process to CBOA on the East Coast, or to whatever the women's equivalent is, just a formality? If I apply to both men's and women's conference staffs, go to both sets of camps, and somehow get hired by both staffs, I can't work both?

AFAIK, Tim Ebersol assigns both men's and women's basketball for the Capital Athletic Conference, so would he react negatively if I showed interest in doing both? Would the men's assigners look askance at me if they know that I went to women's camps, and vice versa?
You have to "pick" which side you are going to do by "picking" which camps you are going to go to. You don't go to both.

Also, if you "pick" men's side and can't cut it (after 3, 4, 5 years of camping), the stigma out there is that men try to make the switch because they think it will be "easier to move up". So, something to keep in mind.
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2018, 10:26am
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Originally Posted by IncorrectCall View Post
You have to "pick" which side you are going to do by "picking" which camps you are going to go to. You don't go to both.

Also, if you "pick" men's side and can't cut it (after 3, 4, 5 years of camping), the stigma out there is that men try to make the switch because they think it will be "easier to move up". So, something to keep in mind.
I've heard this before, but I've also heard of women's assigners being grateful to have former men's officials try out for their staffs due to the perceived greater challenge of officiating the men's game. Not saying whether that's true or not, but I've heard both sides.

As for the stigma, it’s not necessarily false. Despite the fact that the average woman moves up much faster than the average man on the women’s side, most people would tell you that, all things being equal (which obviously they’re not), advancing on the women’s side is less competitive.

Last edited by SC Official; Mon Apr 09, 2018 at 10:47am.
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  #100 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2018, 10:35am
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
I've heard this before, but I've also heard of women's assigners being grateful to have former men's officials try out for their staffs due to the perceived greater challenge of officiating the men's game. Not saying whether that's true or not, but I've heard both sides.
I would believe that first part, because unfortunately there are more quality Men's officials working games than the other way around IMO. So what happens is most of the top officials usually try to go to the Men's side first and it is a default that they go to the Women's game if they cannot get through the tunnel.

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  #101 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2018, 01:03pm
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Does the Big Sky conference still have people working both sides? I know they did for a while, but am out of the loop now.
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  #102 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2018, 02:01pm
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Originally Posted by rockyroad View Post
Does the Big Sky conference still have people working both sides? I know they did for a while, but am out of the loop now.
I don't believe so, and if I am not mistaken that is one of the reasons why they changed assignors on the men's side not many seasons ago.
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  #103 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2018, 03:27pm
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Originally Posted by johnny d View Post
I don't believe so, and if I am not mistaken that is one of the reasons why they changed assignors on the men's side not many seasons ago.
And I know this is hard to believe for some, but women's coaches often do not want officials that work Men's games. We had a D3 assignor that I once worked for that would put people on conference games of both sides. He was fired and one of the reasons I understand that to be the case was because of him not caring who he put on a game regardless of gender. There was also JUCO league that I worked that the assignor would do the same sometimes, that did not go over well in that conference either.

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  #104 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2018, 05:35pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
And I know this is hard to believe for some, but women's coaches often do not want officials that work Men's games. We had a D3 assignor that I once worked for that would put people on conference games of both sides. He was fired and one of the reasons I understand that to be the case was because of him not caring who he put on a game regardless of gender. There was also JUCO league that I worked that the assignor would do the same sometimes, that did not go over well in that conference either.

Peace
That's some messed up version of affirmative action at work there :X. If women's coaches don't want men's officials on their games, then good female officials will be less able to work men's basketball, and the discouraging status quo of officials being assigned by gender will continue :sad. This will suck for officials who are on the fence/ have no preference as well. Maybe attitudes will change in a few years, but how would one choose, while a choice still needs to be made?
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  #105 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2018, 07:14pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
That's some messed up version of affirmative action at work there :X. If women's coaches don't want men's officials on their games, then good female officials will be less able to work men's basketball, and the discouraging status quo of officials being assigned by gender will continue :sad. This will suck for officials who are on the fence/ have no preference as well. Maybe attitudes will change in a few years, but how would one choose, while a choice still needs to be made?
What in the hell does anything I said have to do with Affirmative Action? Are you going to tell me that the two games are not different? Their rules are different in many respects. Their mechanics are different. The athleticism is different. One game plays above the rim often and the other is a highlight if someone even comes close to dunking in the game. What do you mean it is going to suck? It has been the case my entire career and I am sure longer. It is not about attitudes being changed, because there are officials that are incapable of working both, it is that simple. It is like saying someone that is a good junior high official is going to all of a sudden be a good high school official. The two things have to do with your ability to deal with the culture, ability and the rules that many officials get mixed up all the time. If you cannot make a choice, someone will make that choice for you. As stated by many on this site.

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