Can an NCAA Basketball Official Work Both Sexes?

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Rich

31 years of officiating and almost 20 on this forum and you might be the first person to talk to me like I'm 4 years old.

It's the first of multiple shots. How many violations have you seen or called on the first of multiple shots? You know they don't stand there for the final shot, right?

The whistle stops play. If I blow my whistle and don't raise my hand, does the clock stop? Yes, of course it does.

Rich, I'm sorry if I made you feel that way. You asked me to give you a reason why standing in the lane on free throws is lazy, and I gave you one.

We could go on endlessly about hypotheticals (What if no one hears the whistle, and you have not given the stop-the clock signal?), but JRutledge put it best when he said that "all those are esthetics".

Matt, what made you choose the women's side over the men's side, and why do you say that a women's college game is called in absolutes?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Matt, what made you choose the women's side over the men's side, and why do you say that a women's college game is called in absolutes?

Not to speak for Matt, but it's because of the emphasis and evaluation placed on the "absolute" fouls listed in the rule book. These are (about) the same in NCAAM/NCAAW/NFHS but are called more strictly in NCAAW (at least as opposed to NFHS -- I haven't watched enough NCAAM to know for sure). If two hands go on, NCAAW wants a foul called -- and the pre-season and in-season videos reflect that.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Not to speak for Matt, but it's because of the emphasis and evaluation placed on the "absolute" fouls listed in the rule book. These are (about) the same in NCAAM/NCAAW/NFHS but are called more strictly in NCAAW (at least as opposed to NFHS -- I haven't watched enough NCAAM to know for sure). If two hands go on, NCAAW wants a foul called -- and the pre-season and in-season videos reflect that.

NCAA-M and HS officials do a horrific job in regards to hands on/bumping/riding ball-handlers. I haven't watched enough NCAA-W to know what it is like there, so I'll trust your opinion on that.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Raymond

NCAA-M and HS officials do a horrific job in regards to hands on/bumping/riding ball-handlers. I haven't watched enough NCAA-W to know what it is like there, so I'll trust your opinion on that.

I assume (yes, I know what that means) that the officials, as a group, are calling what the coaches / supervisors want, again, as a group.

So (generally), in NCAAW, if you call the arm-bar, no one says anything (except to yell at the player). If you don't call it, the coach yells at you.

But, generally, in NFHS, if you call, it, the coach yells at you. If you don't call it, no one says anything.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I assume (yes, I know what that means) that the officials, as a group, are calling what the coaches / supervisors want, again, as a group.
....

Actually, in both my HS and college games, I hear chirping from coaches about contact on the ball handlers.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Actually, in both my HS and college games, I hear chirping from coaches about contact on the ball handlers.

I don't work many HS games, in fact I try to work as few as possible, but I agree with the statement. However, I would say in my college games, there are very few complaints when the directives regarding contact on ball handlers are enforced, even strictly enforced. In those games I might get the occasional make sure it is called the same way on the other end nonsense, but no real complaints. In HS games on the other hand, the coaches complain when these fouls are not called, and the same coaches complain when these fouls are called.

[johnny d]

Actually, if I really want to make a HS coach's head explode, I just start calling illegal screens as I would in my college games. Most of the HS coaches have no idea what the screening rules are and they seem to very rarely enforced by many of the officials in my area.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I don't work many HS games, in fact I try to work as few as possible, but I agree with the statement. However, I would say in my college games, there are very few complaints when the directives regarding contact on ball handlers are enforced, even strictly enforced. In those games I might get the occasional make sure it is called the same way on the other end nonsense, but no real complaints. In HS games on the other hand, the coaches complain when these fouls are not called, and the same coaches complain when these fouls are called.

Do you work men's or women's college games? If men's then maybe J.D. (Collins) is emphasizing the automatic fouls as much as June (Courteau) is, and the discussion about "absolutes" may be less relevant than originally thought, at least for your conference.

RE: Illegal screens, I haven't seen too many of those in the (sub-varsity) high school games that I have worked, but I have called them in intramural games, especially as the trail or center official when I was off-ball. Perhaps 3-man mechanics allow better coverage of screens than 2 man, but that's a discussion for another post.

[Matt S.]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

So (generally), in NCAAW, if you call the arm-bar, no one says anything (except to yell at the player). If you don't call it, the coach yells at you.

But, generally, in NFHS, if you call, it, the coach yells at you. If you don't call it, no one says anything.

THIS.

NCAAW coaches are told that officials will enforce the rules as written. Do I like the fact that minor contact that doesn't necessary affect play is to be called a foul? No. But I'm not charged with injecting my opinion into the adjudication of the rules.

Essentially, the NCAAW rules have eliminated a certain degree of judgment from the game. I have my theories as to why, but this isn't the place to share them.

[SC Official]

Technically NFHS and NCAAM have also eliminated the same degree of judgment, as well–the “automatics” are the same across all the rulesets.

I guess it’s just that on the men’s side those “absolutes” aren’t “absolute” in application.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

NCAA-M and HS officials do a horrific job in regards to hands on/bumping/riding ball-handlers. I haven't watched enough NCAA-W to know what it is like there, so I'll trust your opinion on that.

I think it is about the same in my observation. I think defenders are doing things that make it very difficult to call because it might not fit the rules that are the automatics. I also feel like there are a lot of ball handlers selling their actions which also makes it difficult to get some consistency sometimes (last night's game for example). I do not think it is widely different. I do think every time a girl or women's basketball player is touched someone wants a foul. I think that is more prevalent in the woman's game than when boys or men are playing.

Peace