Can an NCAA Basketball Official Work Both Sexes?

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

As a ref, you can get lots of really good experience with recognizing and calling all types of angles, and configurations on "held balls" in girl's/women's games. Lots of held balls and AP arrow action occurs for sure.

I agree with that for lower levels, but does this happen in NCAA women's basketball?

Besides experience with held ball situations, are there any advantage to working women's basketball? AFAIK, some women's mechanics are lazy (not stopping the clock on OOB plays, 5-second violations, or 10-second violations; using the fist to start the clock; standing in the lane as the Lead on the first free throw), but some ideas make sense (coming up with one decision on block-charge plays).

Conversely, what are the advantages to working men's basketball? Is there any ideas from the men's game that make sense, or bad mechanics habits that men's officials get into?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I agree with that for lower levels, but does this happen in NCAA women's basketball?

Besides experience with held ball situations, are there any advantage to working women's basketball? AFAIK, some women's mechanics are lazy (not stopping the clock on OOB plays, 5-second violations, or 10-second violations; using the fist to start the clock; standing in the lane as the Lead on the first free throw), but some ideas make sense (coming up with one decision on block-charge plays).

Conversely, what are the advantages to working men's basketball? Is there any ideas from the men's game that make sense, or bad mechanics habits that men's officials get into?

What you call lazy, I call decisive -- a crisp directional point without the "stop clock" mechanic is far better than the stop clock and subsequent point.

Standing on the block on the first free throw -- give me one reason why that's lazy rather than an intelligent mechanics choice. Nothing's happening and it saves steps. Smart.

[ilyazhito]

Standing on the block does not put you in a good position to see lane violations or displacement in the lane on free throws. The approved position in the NFHS and CCA Men's Basketball manual does. This is an article that explains more about why you should not stand in the lane as the Lead Lead, They Didn’t Vacate that Lower Lane Space for You to Stand In. See https://www.myvirtualofficialsassociation.com/?p=626 for more information on stopping the clock. The reason why the NFHS and CCA men's manuals require stopping the clock is because the "stop the clock" signal is what technically stops play, as well as reminds the clock operator to stop the clock, and gives the official time to process the play before making a decision.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Standing on the block does not put you in a good position to see lane violations or displacement in the lane on free throws. The approved position in the NFHS and CCA Men's Basketball manual does. This is an article that explains more about why you should not stand in the lane as the Lead Lead, They Didn’t Vacate that Lower Lane Space for You to Stand In. See https://www.myvirtualofficialsassociation.com/?p=626 for more information on stopping the clock. The reason why the NFHS and CCA men's manuals require stopping the clock is because the "stop the clock" signal is what technically stops play, as well as reminds the clock operator to stop the clock, and gives the official time to process the play before making a decision.

31 years of officiating and almost 20 on this forum and you might be the first person to talk to me like I'm 4 years old.

It's the first of multiple shots. How many violations have you seen or called on the first of multiple shots? You know they don't stand there for the final shot, right?

The whistle stops play. If I blow my whistle and don't raise my hand, does the clock stop? Yes, of course it does.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's the first of multiple shots. How many violations have you seen or called on the first of multiple shots? You know they don't stand there for the final shot, right? The whistle stops play. If I blow my whistle and don't raise my hand, does the clock stop? Yes, of course it does.

As usual here on the Forum, "When in Rome ...".

If it's accepted, and approved, in your area, go for it.

We've got a local board here in Connecticut that allows, in a two person game, the lead, on a front court end line throwin, to bounce the ball across the paint so as to not cause the trail to move across the basket line.

I'm sure that they could find a reason to throw stones at us.

If it makes you happy
It can't be that bad
If it makes you happy
Then why the hell are you so sad?
Sheryl Crow

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

31 years of officiating and almost 20 on this forum and you might be the first person to talk to me like I'm 4 years old.

It's the first of multiple shots. How many violations have you seen or called on the first of multiple shots? You know they don't stand there for the final shot, right?

The whistle stops play. If I blow my whistle and don't raise my hand, does the clock stop? Yes, of course it does.

All those are esthetics. I have no desire to just point on out of bounds plays. Minor issue and almost irrelevant issue. Women's basketball can have that stuff.

Peace

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Rich

31 years of officiating and almost 20 on this forum and you might be the first person to talk to me like I'm 4 years old.

It's the first of multiple shots. How many violations have you seen or called on the first of multiple shots? You know they don't stand there for the final shot, right?

The whistle stops play. If I blow my whistle and don't raise my hand, does the clock stop? Yes, of course it does.

Rich, I'm sorry if I made you feel that way. You asked me to give you a reason why standing in the lane on free throws is lazy, and I gave you one.

We could go on endlessly about hypotheticals (What if no one hears the whistle, and you have not given the stop-the clock signal?), but JRutledge put it best when he said that "all those are esthetics".

Matt, what made you choose the women's side over the men's side, and why do you say that a women's college game is called in absolutes?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Matt, what made you choose the women's side over the men's side, and why do you say that a women's college game is called in absolutes?

Not to speak for Matt, but it's because of the emphasis and evaluation placed on the "absolute" fouls listed in the rule book. These are (about) the same in NCAAM/NCAAW/NFHS but are called more strictly in NCAAW (at least as opposed to NFHS -- I haven't watched enough NCAAM to know for sure). If two hands go on, NCAAW wants a foul called -- and the pre-season and in-season videos reflect that.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Not to speak for Matt, but it's because of the emphasis and evaluation placed on the "absolute" fouls listed in the rule book. These are (about) the same in NCAAM/NCAAW/NFHS but are called more strictly in NCAAW (at least as opposed to NFHS -- I haven't watched enough NCAAM to know for sure). If two hands go on, NCAAW wants a foul called -- and the pre-season and in-season videos reflect that.

NCAA-M and HS officials do a horrific job in regards to hands on/bumping/riding ball-handlers. I haven't watched enough NCAA-W to know what it is like there, so I'll trust your opinion on that.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rich

31 years of officiating and almost 20 on this forum and you might be the first person to talk to me like I'm 4 years old.

that's because the poster is about 4 years old (or at least a lot closer to it than you or I). We all had "all the answers" when we were that age -- we just didn't spam them out to every discussion board.

The whistle stops play. If I blow my whistle and don't raise my hand, does the clock stop? Yes, of course it does.

And, no timer ever looks for the raised hand before stopping the clock.