Just when you think...

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by nine01c
In this same throw-in situation, if B1 holds the ball that is over the plane while A1 (out of bounds) is still holding also, is it a jump ball (possession arrow), or a violation on A1 for being out of bounds?

Held ball. And if A1 had the ball due to an alternating possession procedure, then the ball is awarded back to Team A for the subsequent throw-in.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

What?

Technically,the ball has to have come in bounds,or it never would be legal for the defender to grab it or slap it.

All I know is that "a player is OOB when he/she touches the floor. . . outside a boundary" (7-1-1) and that "the ball is OOB when it touches a player who is OOB" (7-1-2a). The player is OOB and the ball is touching the player. Therefore, in the above situation, the ball was technically never inbounds.

Nowhere in 10.3.12SitB does the casebook mention that the ball is "inbounds" when it is slapped from A1's hand.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Held ball. And if A1 had the ball due to an alternating possession procedure, then the ball is awarded back to Team A for the subsequent throw-in.

Case book play 6.3.5 Situation B

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

All I know is that "a player is OOB when he/she touches the floor. . . outside a boundary" (7-1-1) and that "the ball is OOB when it touches a player who is OOB" (7-1-2a). The player is OOB and the ball is touching the player. Therefore, in the above situation, the ball was technically never inbounds.

Nowhere in 10.3.12SitB does the casebook mention that the ball is "inbounds" when it is slapped from A1's hand.

Chuck, you're right. The ball is OOB while only A1 is holding it, whether he is holding it over the plane or not. The ball is OOB while both A1 and B1 are holding it. The ball is also OOB during a throw-in if both A1 and A2 are holding it. The ball finally becomes in-bounds when B1, who is standing in-bounds, is touching it and A1 is no longer touching it.

Two plays should clarify this:
1. A1 holds the ball through the OOB plane and B1 grabs it. A1 never lets go and pulls the ball back over the plane to the OOB side with B1 still hanging onto it.
2. A1 holds the ball through the OOB plane and B1 grabs it and takes it from A1. A1, no longer in contact with the ball, but still OOB now reaches onto the court and touches the ball while B1 is holding it in-bounds.

I know you know what to call on both of these plays.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Held ball. And if A1 had the ball due to an alternating possession procedure, then the ball is awarded back to Team A for the subsequent throw-in.

And note that if A1 had the ball due to any othre throw-in reason, the ball goes to the arrow, and B could get it.

...and after the T on coach A, B keeps the arrow.

[Nevadaref]

I thought of an even simpler example for JR.
And with him keeping it simple is important!

During normal play the ball is live and in-bounds, but gets batted away and bounces toward the stands. The ball crosses the OOB plane of the sideline, but A1 jumps from in-bounds and saves it. Did the ball ever go OOB? No, if it did it would have been a violation the whistle would have blown. Did the ball cross the plane? Yes.

So just because the ball is on one side of the OOB plane or the other doesn't mean that the ball is inbounds or out-of-bounds. It simply means that the ball is on a certain side of the plane. So JR should have written that technically the ball had to cross to the in-bounds side of the throw-in plane or else it wouldn't have been legal for the defender to grab it.

The ball's inbounds/OOB status is determined by where it last touched or is touching a player or the court. What side of the plane it is on has nothing to do with it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
I thought of an even simpler example for JR.
And with him keeping it simple is important!

I try not to respond to personal slurs on this forum,even ones that someone attempts to disguise by adding a smilie to them.I may make an exception in your particular case sometime in the future,however.

Please note that there is no smilie added to my response.

[Nevadaref]

Didn't mean to get on your bad side. I was just teasing you a little bit. If you thought otherwise, please accept my deepest apologies.