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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 29, 2018, 10:27am
LRZ LRZ is offline
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Events in real time simply occur too quickly and are too complex for me to measure as if with a micrometer, so I have no default, no "go with" call--I referee the defense, immediately process what I see, and make a call, one way or the other. I'm just not that good to parse actions in real time and say "50/50" or something similar.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 29, 2018, 05:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LRZ View Post
Events in real time simply occur too quickly and are too complex for me to measure as if with a micrometer, so I have no default, no "go with" call--I referee the defense, immediately process what I see, and make a call, one way or the other. I'm just not that good to parse actions in real time and say "50/50" or something similar.
Are you saying ( And I'm not judging ) that you dont take into consideration time and score, who the players are, how many fouls they have, what was most recently called on other end ), when making a decision on a " bang bang" play. I realize the purists will
beat me up over saying that but I think
on plays that close those are things that can help you in formulating your whistle...if
you have no idea what to call when you processing the play...

From what I read it seems as if you say, " Well I think it is a charge, therefore it is a charge" Again no judgement, just trying to understand your thought process....
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 29, 2018, 06:10pm
LRZ LRZ is offline
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I'm saying two things, I think.

(1) I don't have a "default" on 50/50 plays: eg, reacting in real time, I see a charge or I see a block. In my mind, I don't "think" I see a block--I see a block.

(2) I focus on my perception of the play in front of me--eg, did the defender have LGP, did he move laterally or forward--not on externals like score.

I'm aware of the score and time, who the dominant players are, who may be in foul trouble, but I don't use those factors in making calls--not consciously, anyway.

Maybe what I'm saying is I always have an idea of what to call--although I may be wrong! In my work life, we used to say about judges, "Often wrong, never in doubt!" I'm also reminded of the famous Bill Klem quote, "It ain't nothin' until I call it."

Last edited by LRZ; Thu Mar 29, 2018 at 06:13pm.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 29, 2018, 06:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LRZ View Post
Randa16, it is not post count that's at issue but attitude.

This judgmental line from your post makes you sound like you think you are better than the refs you criticized: "I have to say it was one of the worst called games I have ever seen."

That is not productive and doesn't contribute to anyone's improvement, which is generally the purpose of this forum--our collective education.

Lol how is my opinion saying I am better then anyone? I watched the game with several other refs. Guys who have done state HS championship games and college officials. They all agreed it was a horrible job by the officials. I gave my opinion thatís what everyone else does. To flex a post count is pathetic.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 29, 2018, 06:43pm
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Originally Posted by deecee View Post
Glad that you join us here once a year, around the same time, to discuss the same thing over and over again (a call you didn't like). Welcome to the internet. Tell you family the internet says HI!

You sum up perfectly what is wrong with a lot of officials.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 29, 2018, 07:02pm
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A Truly Great Basketball Official ...

Confucius says, "Anticipate the play, not the call".
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 30, 2018, 07:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randa16 View Post
You sum up perfectly what is wrong with a lot of officials.
Couldn't he make the same comment about you? That sitting around judging the worthiness and tearing down the abilities of other officials is what's wrong with a lot of officials?
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Last edited by Raymond; Fri Mar 30, 2018 at 07:55am.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 30, 2018, 10:02am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randa16 View Post
Lol how is my opinion saying I am better then anyone? I watched the game with several other refs. Guys who have done state HS championship games and college officials. They all agreed it was a horrible job by the officials. I gave my opinion thatís what everyone else does. To flex a post count is pathetic.
Randa, just curious as a KU guy, I thought the refs did ok , did think that was a charge, but on balance didn't think KU got the benefit of the whistle that day. Since you thought they were horrible, I imagine you were rooting for Duke lol. What calls did you have a problem with?
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 30, 2018, 10:17am
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Originally Posted by thedewed View Post
Randa, just curious as a KU guy, I thought the refs did ok , did think that was a charge, but on balance didn't think KU got the benefit of the whistle that day. Since you thought they were horrible, I imagine you were rooting for Duke lol. What calls did you have a problem with?

What? Discussing specific plays and calls instead of making unchallengeable ambiguous criticisms?

Be careful. Our March lurkers might start to think this an officiating discussion forum!


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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 30, 2018, 11:46am
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Roger made a block call and sold it.

After slowing the tape down and reviewing several times, it appears the defender establishes LGP, but then moves ever so slightly to his left to engage the offensive player. Bang bang call. I can agree with the call. But in real time, you've got to make the decision, call it, and sell it. Roger did all three.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 30, 2018, 12:21pm
LRZ LRZ is offline
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"it appears the defender establishes LGP, but then moves ever so slightly to his left to engage the offensive player."

I thought the defender, with LGP, moved laterally, so that the offensive player was responsible for the contact. But that was with the benefit of repeated viewings of the video. But as noted, the official on the floor had to react and sell the call, which he did. I have no problem with the call.

Whether the ref missed it or not is not a relevant question to me. When I think a call has been missed, I always ask why, what might the official have seen, was he in the right spot--that is, what can I learn from it?
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 30, 2018, 12:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LRZ View Post
"it appears the defender establishes LGP, but then moves ever so slightly to his left to engage the offensive player."

I thought the defender, with LGP, moved laterally, so that the offensive player was responsible for the contact. But that was with the benefit of repeated viewings of the video. But as noted, the official on the floor had to react and sell the call, which he did. I have no problem with the call.

Whether the ref missed it or not is not a relevant question to me. When I think a call has been missed, I always ask why, what might the official have seen, was he in the right spot--that is, what can I learn from it?
I agree completely
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 30, 2018, 01:38pm
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I will take slight issue with the statement that he "sold" this call. His footwork and cocked arm indicates he is getting ready to ship it, then he changes his mind and indicates the block.


Last edited by ballgame99; Fri Mar 30, 2018 at 01:40pm.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 30, 2018, 02:03pm
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Originally Posted by ballgame99 View Post
I will take slight issue with the statement that he "sold" this call. His footwork and cocked arm indicates he is getting ready to ship it, then he changes his mind and indicates the block.
Or maybe he paused for a second to process the play, which is one of the reasons there is such a big push to stop the clock in college.

I watched the same video you did and never once thought "he's about to punch it."
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 30, 2018, 02:07pm
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How exactly did he "sell" the call?

Crisp signals and a strong presence every time you blow your whistle eliminates the need to sell calls.
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Last edited by Raymond; Fri Mar 30, 2018 at 02:10pm.
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