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  #61 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 08, 2018, 06:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
I have Asperger's Syndrome, a disorder on the autism spectrum, which makes it more difficult for me to understand people than it may be for a normal person. I also may understand things literally, and may not understand unwritten rules, or deviations from written rules. Asperger's Syndrome is not without its strengths: I am a highly logical thinker, I pay attention to details, I am persistent in pursuing my interests (officiating is one of them), and I can remember many relevant facts. With proper support, I might be able to become "The Rule Guy (TM)" on a varsity, collegiate, or professional crew .

ilyazhito, suddenly your perspective and approach make a lot more sense. I apologize for being ignorant.

The pokes notwithstanding, please keep posting. You might get a little grief from time to time, but your posts are very accurate. Almost uncomfortably literal, thatís all.

Every official develops their own style, quirks, habits, etc. Iím sure youíll do that, too, in time. In fact your style might be the style of no style, which is in and of itself a style. Donít be afraid to be yourself. At the end of the day, if you can call a game and command a court, youíll advance on merit.



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  #62 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 08, 2018, 06:58pm
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Preliminary ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I don't think I say ANYTHING.
By IAABO mechanics (used by a very small percentage of Forum members), Rich is 100% correct. We never have to verbalize what type of foul at the preliminary, just the proper signal is required. All we have to verbalize for the preliminary is the color, and number, of the fouler. Maybe NFHS mechanics dictate the same?

Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
Every official develops their own style, quirks, habits, etc.
For some reason I got into a habit of stating "Player control", or "Team control", at the preliminary, don't know why (maybe, as a young lad, I was trying to emulate a highly respected official who did likewise). I guess that it's become my "style". Maybe that's why I haven't gotten any state finals yet? Yeah, that's the reason, for sure. Absolutely, that's gotta be the only reason.

Or maybe it's because I put two fists on my hips at the preliminary for blocking fouls. At least I fix it by putting two open hands on my hips when I report the foul to the table, so that can't be why I haven't gotten a final yet? I only half screw up on those. Half screwing up is better than totally screwing up? Right? I fix it at the table, so it can't be that bad? Right?
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Apr 08, 2018 at 07:11pm.
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 08, 2018, 07:16pm
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I do say color, number, and type of foul to verbally inform the offender that he fouled. If he asks for an explanation, I give it quickly. If not, he knows what he has done wrong. By the book, I am only required to inform the offender that he has fouled (and the preliminary signal explains the type of foul?), but my style is Manual+. By Manual+, I do what is required in the mechanics manual, with necessary additions to clarify the situation, emphatic signals to sell calls (especially on PC/TC fouls, when a score might be cancelled), and explanations if needed.

About the OP, if the official had used the proper "player control foul" signal, which in NCAA (the CCA men's manual) is grabbing the head (like NFHS) and a punch to indicate the direction, then there would be no confusion, as had happened with only the punch (some officials use a downward punch to indicate "score the goal", instead of the signal shown in the NFHS and CCA men's manual). This is why proper mechanics matter: Improper mechanics can confuse observers.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 08, 2018, 08:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
I was seriously asking a question. I haven't done any college games, so I'm trying to understand if foul reporting procedures are different for college than for high school,
Of course they are.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 08, 2018, 09:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
I was seriously asking a question. I haven't done any college games, so I'm trying to understand if foul reporting procedures are different for college than for high school, both according to the CCA manuals and how they are actually done in practice. If they are, I will follow what is written in the appropriate CCA manual when I go to college tryout camps. If not, I will default to NFHS SOP.

AFAIK, in my games in DC and MD, no one told me that I should not follow the reporting procedure in the NFHS manual, because both Board 12 and MBOA use the NFHS manual as a basis for their mechanics.

I don't understand why JRutledge and other users believe that I am trying to insult them. I am trying to learn by sharing my experiences and asking questions about things that I may not understand. I do not want to have to say this on a public forum, but I will. I have Asperger's Syndrome, a disorder on the autism spectrum, which makes it more difficult for me to understand people than it may be for a normal person. I also may understand things literally, and may not understand unwritten rules, or deviations from written rules. Asperger's Syndrome is not without its strengths: I am a highly logical thinker, I pay attention to details, I am persistent in pursuing my interests (officiating is one of them), and I can remember many relevant facts. With proper support, I might be able to become "The Rule Guy (TM)" on a varsity, collegiate, or professional crew .
No one is insulted by you and secondly, none of that has to do with the response you are getting. The response is because you make remarks as if you know better than those that have been doing this longer than you. Sorry, but even with all of that you stated, you still have not done varsity, college or any other level. So the ideas you have are interesting, but that does not make the accurate. The NF, for example, does not make states follow their mechanics on any level. It is used to have some standardization but the NF does not expect states to follow things or do not get even upset if states do something totally different. But you might not know that because you have not been officiating very long or on this site which these things get talked about often. So if someone says something verbally or not, does it really matter? And the person you said something smart to actually assigns officials. If he does not care, I doubt anyone else gives a darn what verbal words they use on a specific call. Not insulted, just think someone that has admitted to only worked three year and no regular varsity might want to listen to high school, college, and high-level playoff officials. Your background is interesting, but it does not excuse the lack of perspective you have shown in this discussion.

Peace
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 08, 2018, 09:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
Hypothetical: Imagine ilyazhito with his strict mechanics PLUS Nevadaref with his strict rules interpretations. Now imagine them together on the floor working a 2-person game.

Iíd pay to see it. The game would be an afterthought.
Can we please add BillyMac as the third at least?! Even though Conn. doesn't use 3-man until there are 8 teams left
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 08, 2018, 10:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
I do say color, number, and type of foul to verbally inform the offender that he fouled. If he asks for an explanation, I give it quickly. If not, he knows what he has done wrong. By the book, I am only required to inform the offender that he has fouled (and the preliminary signal explains the type of foul?), but my style is Manual+. By Manual+, I do what is required in the mechanics manual, with necessary additions to clarify the situation, emphatic signals to sell calls (especially on PC/TC fouls, when a score might be cancelled), and explanations if needed.

About the OP, if the official had used the proper "player control foul" signal, which in NCAA (the CCA men's manual) is grabbing the head (like NFHS) and a punch to indicate the direction, then there would be no confusion, as had happened with only the punch (some officials use a downward punch to indicate "score the goal", instead of the signal shown in the NFHS and CCA men's manual). This is why proper mechanics matter: Improper mechanics can confuse observers.
Clinicians at college camps will not give a damn that you show a prelim on every foul, that you verbalize the offender at the spot on every foul you call, or that you otherwise follow the manual to a T. If you do all that crap you will look like a rookie and you will not get hired, and when you go back the next year to try out again they WILL remember and you'll already have a strike against you.

You don't have to listen to anyone on this forum. But don't come crying to us when you can't get to the varsity level, or the college level, or beyond because the only guidance you follow is "the manual."
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old Sun Apr 08, 2018, 10:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ODog View Post
Can we please add BillyMac as the third at least?! Even though Conn. doesn't use 3-man until there are 8 teams left
That's priceless! What high school game would have us together? The McDonald's All-American Game ?

To SCOfficial, why is there a bias against officials who officiate using proper procedures at tryout camps? Aren't all officials rookies at one time, or another (whether to HS, to varsity, to playoffs, college, etc.)? What if an official does everything required of him by the book, and shows good game management and judgement in playcalling? Will evaluators pass over him in favor of someone who might look less official?

To bobjenkins, how exactly are foul reporting procedures different in college vs. high school? I know that the CCA men's manual has officials switching opposite the table, and that the CCA women's manual has officials switching tableside, and these switches can actually be seen in games.

About the OP, if the official uses the recommended signal for a player control foul, no confusion ensues. Any other takes on the OP?
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2018, 06:16am
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Possibly As An Alternate ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by ODog View Post
Can we please add BillyMac as the third at least?
Can I wear my black belt?
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2018, 07:00am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
That's priceless! What high school game would have us together? The McDonald's All-American Game ?

To SCOfficial, why is there a bias against officials who officiate using proper procedures at tryout camps? Aren't all officials rookies at one time, or another (whether to HS, to varsity, to playoffs, college, etc.)? What if an official does everything required of him by the book, and shows good game management and judgement in playcalling? Will evaluators pass over him in favor of someone who might look less official?

To bobjenkins, how exactly are foul reporting procedures different in college vs. high school? I know that the CCA men's manual has officials switching opposite the table, and that the CCA women's manual has officials switching tableside, and these switches can actually be seen in games.

About the OP, if the official uses the recommended signal for a player control foul, no confusion ensues. Any other takes on the OP?
I'm not SCOfficial, but the book (rule, case, mechanics) doesn't always say exactly what it means or mean exactly what it says. You (especially at your experience level) need to more follow the "when in Rome" philosophy -- but I recognize that this can be tough because you (especially at your experience level) don't always know when someone else is doing something "wrong" or they are doing it "right, but not by the written book."

For foul reporting / mechanics -- too many to list -- when to switch, when to give a preliminary (fairly rare in NCAAW, at least), when to bird-dog, where to report, whether to come to a stop, etc.

Look --it's good to have goals. And the goal of becoming an NCAA and / or NBA official is good. But (1), it's a hard goal to achieve -- so have a back-up plan.

But (2) , that's a long-term goal, and the specifics of everything you've been asking about will change by the time you are ready to begin that process (probably at least six years, I would guess). So, you should stop focusing on all the little details and instead work on shorter-term goals like getting a full Frosh or Soph or JV schedule and working as many games as you can to get experience. And, that kind of goal is extremely dependent on your area -- so you should ask local officials and not a general group from around the country. If you do this, your goal of NCAA/NBA will be more likely -- if you don't do this, it will be impossible.
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2018, 07:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
To SCOfficial, why is there a bias against officials who officiate using proper procedures at tryout camps? Aren't all officials rookies at one time, or another (whether to HS, to varsity, to playoffs, college, etc.)? What if an official does everything required of him by the book, and shows good game management and judgement in playcalling? Will evaluators pass over him in favor of someone who might look less official?
There is a difference between looking like an official who just started his career and an official who is a rookie to the college scene. Doing all that spot of the foul stuff will make you look like the former; you don't want to go to a camp looking like you're a robot trying to show off that you do everything "by the book." It is goofy and not the norm, whether it's in the manual or not.

And "proper procedures" in the manual are often contradictory to "proper procedures" for assigners or just what accepted practices are. Whether or not you think that's right is a different discussion.

Ask yourself this question: how often do you see college officials, or NBA officials, or high-level high school officials, give a preliminary on anything other than a block/charge play or an offensive (PC/TC) foul? How often do you see those officials verbally say the color and number on every foul call? Unless you live in a state where the high school powers-that-be are super purist and anal about being by the book, the answer should be "very rarely." If you want to make it to the next level, you should have a desire to emulate officials that are at that respective level-and you should start by dropping the "I only care about doing everything by the book" attitude.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2018, 07:12am
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BillyMac, if that is a part of your uniform, go ahead. However, all of us will have to match. Me, Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., and Nevadaref will probably not wear belts, unless we all agree to.
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2018, 01:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
I have Asperger's Syndrome, a disorder on the autism spectrum, which makes it more difficult for me to understand people than it may be for a normal person.
Aspies are awesome, no doubt about it. Tony Attwood should be an official. He would be very understanding of......everyone.
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2018, 02:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
.... I have Asperger's Syndrome, a disorder on the autism spectrum, which makes it more difficult for me to understand people than it may be for a normal person. I also may understand things literally, and may not understand unwritten rules, or deviations from written rules. Asperger's Syndrome is not without its strengths: I am a highly logical thinker, I pay attention to details, I am persistent in pursuing my interests (officiating is one of them), and I can remember many relevant facts. With proper support, I might be able to become "The Rule Guy (TM)" on a varsity, collegiate, or professional crew .
That would explain you hyper-focus on certain subjects. I was never diagnosed, but through my son's diagnosis I realized I am on the spectrum myself. As it is a social disorder, you can learn to overcome some aspects and compensate for some aspects. You would probably be great at film study. You should devote more energy in that direction, and less on rule changes and such.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old Mon Apr 09, 2018, 04:42pm
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Do As I Say, Not As I Do ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
BillyMac, if that is a part of your uniform, go ahead ... Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. ...
Actually IAABO International, the parent organization of my local board, forbids belted pants, and has done so for a few years. Because we have a few "belt" guys, our local board passed a constitutional amendment a few years ago that gives us the option of wearing belted (must be a black belt) pants as part of our approved uniform if we want to.

I spotted a rookie official (who did an excellent job officiating, he's a former high school basketball coach) wearing a belt this past season. I always provide positive feedback, or constructive criticism, to subvarsity officials that I observe (we're an educational organization), so I told him that as a up and coming young guy he should wear beltless pants, it's a better look, and a more modern look. Guys as old a dirt, like me, can pull off the belted look, but beltless is the way to go.

There are still some excellent dinosaurs on my local board. A outstanding veteran official wore belted pants working a girls state final this past season. Chalk one up for the old guys.

Also, for your information, Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. doesn't wear a belt when he works games, he wears suspenders. Good thing, because when he works, he goes commando.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Apr 09, 2018 at 05:17pm.
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