Why Aren't You On TV?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

Ok, I'll take the bait.

My guess and/or opinion is that most guys don't have the time and money to go to camp after camp after camp and kiss butt to get on the circuit.

I have the opinion that a number of guys on this website could work NCAA games if they haven't already. I've worked with guys that do lower level college stuff and I believe they could do just as good of a job without the theatrics and "look at me" mechanics of the guys on TV.

While it does indeed take some sort of talent, working NCAA games isn't purely about being a great official. It's about spending absurd amounts of time and money at camps so that you can kiss up and become part of the club. That's how you get in. Even at lower level college games that's what it takes.

It's not that the guys on TV are so great. They miss calls too. Nobody is perfect at officiating.

For that matter, I know some that work small college that just are not very good, yet, they're there. Why? No one knows. Perhaps they spent the most on the assignors camp. I wasn't going to play that game. I was there but I wasn't going to pay the assignor to go to his camp every year for what amounted to about half of the game fees for a year and take 3-4 days off work to do it. I didn't go to it two years in a row and was dropped. He had a LOT of officials on his roster so he could give everyone just a few games and expected them all to come to camp...a pretty good racket if you ask me.

[IncorrectCall]

Saying "I didn't want to [go to camp, pay for camp, etc]" as an excuse for why you aren't moving up or never moved up always comes off as bitter, no matter how it's worded.

It's like saying "I didn't want to go to combines, get in the weightroom" when asked why you didn't play college ball. Or "I didn't want to work the small jobs, 60 hours a week" when asked why you didn't make it to the top of your profession.

Being part of "the network" / "having friends" isn't the only way to move up. It works for some, but please stop using it as an excuse of why you haven't/never moved up.

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by IncorrectCall

Saying "I didn't want to [go to camp, pay for camp, etc]" as an excuse for why you aren't moving up or never moved up always comes off as bitter, no matter how it's worded.

It's like saying "I didn't want to go to combines, get in the weightroom" when asked why you didn't play college ball. Or "I didn't want to work the small jobs, 60 hours a week" when asked why you didn't make it to the top of your profession.

Being part of "the network" / "having friends" isn't the only way to move up. It works for some, but please stop using it as an excuse of why you haven't/never moved up.

It doesn't have to be an excuse, but rather just an explanation. For many, the investment of time and treasure isn't worth the potential and uncertain reward, and that's fine. Regardless of the merits of the camp racket/system, if that's the requirement to get thru the gate of being considered, for some it's not a price they're willing to pay. Just like I'm an avid home cook and enjoy learning about it and becoming the best amateur chef I can be, but I'm not going to culinary school. This isn't my job, I'm not aiming to switch careers here. Doesn't mean I don't have the talent or ability to do so, just not choosing to try for a whole variety of reasons.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by IncorrectCall

Saying "I didn't want to [go to camp, pay for camp, etc]" as an excuse for why you aren't moving up or never moved up always comes off as bitter, no matter how it's worded.

It's like saying "I didn't want to go to combines, get in the weightroom" when asked why you didn't play college ball. Or "I didn't want to work the small jobs, 60 hours a week" when asked why you didn't make it to the top of your profession.

Being part of "the network" / "having friends" isn't the only way to move up. It works for some, but please stop using it as an excuse of why you haven't/never moved up.

I'm not sure who your comments are directed at. If they are directed at me, this is my response.

I have no interest in doing college because of what it takes to get in. My family time is more important to me than spending a lot of time and money at camps to prove that I know what I'm doing. So.........this is no excuse for never moving up because I have no desire to go higher than high school.

Getting to NCAA D1 level games without the network and going to camps is impossible. Now, once you get there you might be able to stay there without paying for the camps. I have no idea and I will never find out as I have no desire to be part of that. I do know that the college guys in my area had no college games of any kind until they started going to camps ON A REGULAR BASIS. This is fairly low level college stuff too. Once they started spending the money on camps and going every year, they magically started getting calls.

I am perfectly happy doing high school and being the best that I can be at that.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by IncorrectCall

Saying "I didn't want to [go to camp, pay for camp, etc]" as an excuse for why you aren't moving up or never moved up always comes off as bitter, no matter how it's worded.



It's like saying "I didn't want to go to combines, get in the weightroom" when asked why you didn't play college ball. Or "I didn't want to work the small jobs, 60 hours a week" when asked why you didn't make it to the top of your profession.



Being part of "the network" / "having friends" isn't the only way to move up. It works for some, but please stop using it as an excuse of why you haven't/never moved up.

I can telll you why I didn't pursue it when I was younger. I didn't want to drive 3-5 hours to work in half-empty (or virtually empty for NCAAW) gyms.

Not saying I ever had the talent. But I never really wanted to be more than a HS official. I love HS sports. So much so that I voluntarily left small college baseball and football cause the time-to-joy ratio was too damned high for me. Not to mention the bullshit-to-joy ratio.


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[LRZ]

Rich: "I love HS sports."

Amen. I never had the desire to work college, although I did do local, D3 soccer for a while. And I find that working HS, MS--really, youth sports, from 8-18--allows me to be part of the local community. One of the greatest joys I get from officiating is seeing a kid I umpired or refereed for when he/she was 8-9 years old, now playing varsity.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by IncorrectCall

Saying "I didn't want to [go to camp, pay for camp, etc]" as an excuse for why you aren't moving up or never moved up always comes off as bitter, no matter how it's worded.

It's like saying "I didn't want to go to combines, get in the weightroom" when asked why you didn't play college ball. Or "I didn't want to work the small jobs, 60 hours a week" when asked why you didn't make it to the top of your profession.

Being part of "the network" / "having friends" isn't the only way to move up. It works for some, but please stop using it as an excuse of why you haven't/never moved up.

How is it an excuse? It's a reality for a lot of high school officials. Family time, careers, spending money on other things are higher priorities for lots of officials. I got out of it for a couple reasons, and yes, the time, politics, and money were factors. What makes you "holier than thou"?

For the record, I work with a lot of awful partners in high school. But I also work with a few that are FAR better than some of the partners I worked with in my college days. And some of those good partners are like me-they left or cut down on working college for their own reasons.

And let's not pretend like the #1 objective of camps is finding new officials. Camps are, more or less, a moneymaker primarily and a means of finding new talent secondarily. To act like that's not (generally) true is being disingenuous.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SC Official

How is it an excuse? It's a reality for a lot of high school officials. Family time, careers, spending money on other things are higher priorities for lots of officials. I got out of it for a couple reasons, and yes, the time, politics, and money were factors. What makes you "holier than thou"?

For the record, I work with a lot of awful partners in high school. But I also work with a few that are FAR better than some of the partners I worked with in my college days. And some of those good partners are like me-they left or cut down on working college for their own reasons.

And let's not pretend like the #1 objective of camps is finding new officials. Camps are, more or less, a moneymaker primarily and a means of finding new talent secondarily. To act like that's not (generally) true is being disingenuous.

I often wondered why someone applying for a job should pay someone for the interview.

Good teaching camps are different.


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[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Rich

I often wondered why someone applying for a job should pay someone for the interview.

Good teaching camps are different.

Companies need new employees when people leave.

It's rare that a college assigner "needs" new officials.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Companies need new employees when people leave.

It's rare that a college assigner "needs" new officials.

I am amazed that this system still exists, to be honest. The double dipping just seems wrong. The coordinator is being paid by the conference to evaluate and hire officials, after all.


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[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Rich

I am amazed that this system still exists, to be honest. The double dipping just seems wrong. The coordinator is being paid by the conference to evaluate and hire officials, after all.


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NBA types hate the college camp system. And what you just stated is one of the major reasons.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Rich

I am amazed that this system still exists, to be honest. The double dipping just seems wrong. The coordinator is being paid by the conference to evaluate and hire officials, after all.


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Oh I’m with you. It’s wrong, but as long as assigners and officials are independent contractors (and officials are willing to pay up for a chance to be seen), I don’t see how it will change.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

For that matter, I know some that work small college that just are not very good, yet, they're there. Why? No one knows. Perhaps they spent the most on the assignors camp. I wasn't going to play that game. I was there but I wasn't going to pay the assignor to go to his camp every year for what amounted to about half of the game fees for a year and take 3-4 days off work to do it. I didn't go to it two years in a row and was dropped. He had a LOT of officials on his roster so he could give everyone just a few games and expected them all to come to camp...a pretty good racket if you ask me.

Well said!!!!!

One of the world's biggest legal rackets. You are basically forced to go to expensive camps if you want games.

I have no doubts that everybody can always learn something and get better, but at some point the amount you are paying for these camps and what you are learning don't go hand in hand.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

Well said!!!!!

One of the world's biggest legal rackets. You are basically forced to go to expensive camps if you want games.

I have no doubts that everybody can always learn something and get better, but at some point the amount you are paying for these camps and what you are learning don't go hand in hand.

And don't get me wrong...I went to a bunch of camps through the years. Most were great tools to improve and and some advancing. But, in some cases, they're as much of a way to fleece officials for money as they are a camp to train. In the camp I'm referring to, it was a 4 day camp and by the evening on the 3rd day, there were no observers to be found, yet you had that evening and the next day's games you were still expected to officiate. If you wanted to get on and stay on that assignor's roster, you were expected to be there, at least for the first few years....and he did all of the men's D3 and NAIA schools in the region.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

...a pretty good racket if you ask me.

The college camp system is most definitely a racket. They take money from 50-75 campers to hire 5-10, and most camps give no type of usable training. Plus the camp coordinator gets paid by the tournament to provide officials. The biggest racket is staff camps for college officials, especially below the D1 level.

When I want training I go to camps that are run by NBA officials. I've been very selective about try-out camps.