Three officials who aren't advancing

[Nevadaref]

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/refs-bo...222356055.html

I understand that many officials are not "rules guys," but how can there not be at least one person on an NCAAW tournament game who knows this basic rule--the definition of a goal?

[crosscountry55]

Had a high level AAU game once where this happened. For some reason I got this crossed up with the rare occurrence where the ball seems to be all the way through but then inexplicably somehow rattles back up and out.

But I wasn’t sure. My partner was counting it, so I halt play for a quick conference. Right when we got to each other, the “remains in or passes through” verbiage entered my head. The conference took two seconds. I realized my first instinct was incorrect, and we counted the goal and moved on.

That was two of us in an AAU game. But three in an NCAA tournament game? Yeah, no excuse.


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[bucky]

I'm amazed it got stuck....for the apparent first time. The women's ball is smaller than men's. Was the net installed during the dead ball that preceded this play? Or was it fine for all warm-ups and the game played up until that point? Better check one of the players for stick-um or a foreign substance, lol. Amazing that it got stuck. On a side note, what is the status of the ball? Live? Dead? Ref blew whistle during shot. What if there was a foul, say a Tech, while the ball was stuck? Is that a dead ball T or a live ball T?

[TopicalTropical]

I'm totally flabbergasted about this. Even more so than the West Virginia .3 'buzzer beater'. But at the same time I assume all the refs for both games were experienced officials and thought it would not have happened to them in making glaring mistakes. Maybe it is somehow a psychology thing as I would assume they knew the rules before, at least most of them should have. Weird how these things happen and I guess you can't really say it won't happen to you.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bucky

I'm amazed it got stuck....for the apparent first time. The women's ball is smaller than men's. Was the net installed during the dead ball that preceded this play? Or was it fine for all warm-ups and the game played up until that point? Better check one of the players for stick-um or a foreign substance, lol. Amazing that it got stuck. On a side note, what is the status of the ball? Live? Dead? Ref blew whistle during shot. What if there was a foul, say a Tech, while the ball was stuck? Is that a dead ball T or a live ball T?

1. The whistle was for a foul by a defender against the shooter.
2. What is the status of the ball after any made goal?

Save

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

1. The whistle was for a foul by a defender against the shooter.
2. What is the status of the ball after any made goal?

Save

1. Yea, I know, as indicated.

2. When was the goal made?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bucky

Is that a dead ball T or a live ball T?

Does it make a difference?

Originally Posted by bucky

1. Yea, I know, as indicated.

2. When was the goal made?

When the conditions were met.

(Similar to a violation happening "at the same time" as a foul, the officials must decide which happened first.)

[dahoopref]

Doug Shows, Kelly Self, and Dwayne Gladden was the crew.
March Madness 2018: Auburn put wrong player on free-throw line to seal win vs. Charleston | NCAA Basketball | Sporting News

Had any of the officials been aware of this, or had anyone alerted the officiating crew to the fact that the wrong player was at the foul line, the officials would have been able to review the play and determine [Okeke] should have been the shooter,” NCAA coordinator of officiating J.D. Collins said in a statement.

[Blindolbat]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

Doug Shows, Kelly Self, and Dwayne Gladden was the crew.
March Madness 2018: Auburn put wrong player on free-throw line to seal win vs. Charleston | NCAA Basketball | Sporting News

Would this also be a technical foul in NCAA-M?
If nothing else this just goes to show that stuff like this can happen to the best of us.
Saw teams try this a few times this year in HS. One team got away with it. Luckily I was not on that crew but just observing. I had a team try this on me early in the season but I caught them before anyone lined up for shots and made sure to let everyone know who the correct shooter should be.

[Multiple Sports]

Yes..... by rule it could be a T, but you would be chastised for not managing that situation. Had a game where the wrong kid went to the line and he knew it. Walked up to him and said ( with a smile ), " I know you don't belong here and you know it as well. Now Im going to back away away and bounce the ball, if you catch the ball, Im going to T you up Now walk away and get the right person at the line." He smiled and walked away...he was now my de facto captain the rest of the year whenever a player on his team got mouthy...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Blindolbat

Saw teams try this a few times this year in HS. I had a team try this on me early in the season but I caught them before anyone lined up for shots and made sure to let everyone know who the correct shooter should be.

It's common practice here in my little corner of Connecticut for officials to tell each other, "Twenty-three shoots", before granting a timeout before a free throw situation.

In every free throw situation, it's the responsibility of the noncalling official to remember the shooter. If not obvious, it's the responsibility of the calling official to identify the shooter, by pointing, or verbally, "Twenty-three shoots", or both.

Wasn't it Confucius who said, "When the ball is dead, we must be alive."?

[Chuga]

Doug Shows, Kelly Self, and Dwayne Gladden was the crew.
March Madness 2018: Auburn put wrong player on free-throw line to seal win vs. Charleston | NCAA Basketball | Sporting News[/QUOTE]

The observing official could have also alerted the 3 on court officials that the wrong player was on the line.

[Kansas Ref]

The ''observing official" is highly reluctant to even think of questioning the workflow decisions of the "on-court officials"; however, notwithstanding this fault, the ruse likely tricked the observer also.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

The ''observing official" is highly reluctant to even think of questioning the workflow decisions of the "on-court officials"; however, notwithstanding this fault, the ruse likely tricked the observer also.

Not saying you are wrong but I would think almost the exact opposite. During the pre-game, I would tell the alternate ref to watch us (3 officiating) very closely and help us avoid any mistakes. I would instruct him that he was part of the crew, needs to pay close attention to every play, and help whenever it is needed or he feels it necessary. Probably overkill but that is what I would instruct if I was the R. Perhaps they are reluctant but man, I would be angry if an alternate at the table withheld any info from me. Perhaps their duties are non-existent unless an official goes down. I do not know exactly but still, I would think if you got some intel to share, better share it.

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by bucky

Not saying you are wrong but I would think almost the exact opposite. During the pre-game, I would tell the alternate ref to watch us (3 officiating) very closely and help us avoid any mistakes. I would instruct him that he was part of the crew, needs to pay close attention to every play, and help whenever it is needed or he feels it necessary. Probably overkill but that is what I would instruct if I was the R. Perhaps they are reluctant but man, I would be angry if an alternate at the table withheld any info from me. Perhaps their duties are non-existent unless an official goes down. I do not know exactly but still, I would think if you got some intel to share, better share it.

From what I've been told, none of the crew (including the Alternate) moved on to this weekend.