Why Aren't You On TV?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Yeah, there really aren't that many differences between men's college and high school in terms of mechanics or signaling. The biggest difference is going opposite versus tableside, and I've never worked with a college guy that tried to pull that stunt.

Foul reporting? In high school most states want you to hustle and come to a stop, which is exactly what the CCA manual requires. Now that high school uses two hands, that's one less difference there, too.

If I work with a college guy that wants to use the "walled up" signal or some other non-NFHS auxiliary signal, or does some minor variation from what's explicitly spelled out in the NFHS Manual, that really doesn't bother me. Not sure why some officials get so worked up about it that they ignore the fact that some of the college officials working high school are great partners.

The best officials I work with are guys that have college experience. Why? Because they will not be shy to call hand-checking and other freedom of movement fouls, be aware of the clock and often use common sense when applying rules. Not to say that there are high school only officials that are not very good, but many of them have only a perspective that is limited if they never attended a college camp or got outside of their comfort zone.

And what is so funny, all my career I see high school officials use signals that are not in the book. Heck, I can hardly find a single high school official that signals a team control foul properly, but we get upset if an official uses a signal that actually describes the foul that took place every now an then. We are funny sometimes.

Peace

Originally Posted by NCAAREF

This time of year especially I am always amazed by all the high school, JUCO and lower level college officials who criticize the officials doing the NCAA Tournament, and often times correcting the calls and decisions they make. If you're so good...why aren't you on TV?

Wait so just because we don’t work that level we can’t be critical (for the intention of bettering ourselves) of those who work that level? Get outta here.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Wait so just because we don’t work that level we can’t be critical (for the intention of bettering ourselves) of those who work that level? Get outta here.

Yeah, you can be critical, but if you were so perfect you would be there too. And there is a way to be critical. You can say that the official made a mistake without telling us how much better you would have done.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The best officials I work with are guys that have college experience. Why? Because they will not be shy to call hand-checking and other freedom of movement fouls, be aware of the clock and often use common sense when applying rules. Not to say that there are high school only officials that are not very good, but many of them have only a perspective that is limited if they never attended a college camp or got outside of their comfort zone.

And what is so funny, all my career I see high school officials use signals that are not in the book. Heck, I can hardly find a single high school official that signals a team control foul properly, but we get upset if an official uses a signal that actually describes the foul that took place every now an then. We are funny sometimes.

Peace

And the college officials I work with are much more likely to handle business. Whereas some of my partners wouldn't warn or whack a coach if their lives depended on it.

If the NFHS would approve more signals that actually demonstrate what happened on a play, all the bitching and hypocrisy about using "unauthorized" signals would go away.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

If the NFHS would approve more signals that actually demonstrate what happened on a play, all the bitching and hypocrisy about using "unauthorized" signals would go away.

Totally agree. And it is often this arrogance of "purity" that is the problem.

Peace

[Pantherdreams]

Its 2018 . . . who wants to be on TV. What you really want is streamable/capturable moment that can be easily imbedded shared and then turn into a meme. Does anyone even watch games on TV anymore? Who wants to do or watch anything that takes more than 5 minutes of my time anyway . . .

Seriously though.

I think JRut is bang on. Whether its games at different levels, regions, etc. We could talk officials who do college and hs or officials who do rural and urban. In those cases they just have a broader experience base to draw on and more opportunities to see, learn and develop a better sense of the game. Guys who do 1 level, 1 region, 1 style etc for most or their entire careers can still be good officials, but have to overcome that lack of exposure and experience to be.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by SC Official

And the college officials I work with are much more likely to handle business. Whereas some of my partners wouldn't warn or whack a coach if their lives depended on it.

If the NFHS would approve more signals that actually demonstrate what happened on a play, all the bitching and hypocrisy about using "unauthorized" signals would go away.

In HS games, I signal whatever I need to communicate what happened. I will use a 'hit to the head" signal and "arm bar" signal when doing HS games. I definitely have a rep for handling business, especially with players.

I have found that folks who don't know HS rules aren't much better with college rules. You're either a rules guy, or you are not. One thing I never do is discuss college rules when doing HS pre-games; just causing confusion IMO. I don't like when partners bring up something from college games that have nothing do with HS games.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Raymond

In HS games, I signal whatever I need to communicate what happened. I will use a 'hit to the head" signal and "arm bar" signal when doing HS games. I definitely have a rep for handling business, especially with players.

I have found that folks who don't know HS rules aren't much better with college rules. You're either a rules guy, or you are not. One thing I do is never discuss college rules when doing HS pre-games. I don't like when partners bring up something from college games that have nothing do with HS games.

In some places officials who use those signals can't overcome the powers-that-be who only want "approved" signals.

Agree on the second point. Although just as a general point (not directed at you because I know you're a rules guy), it frustrates me when officials pass off not knowing the rules as "I'm not a rules guy." For me, it's code for "I'm too lazy or too arrogant to study the rules."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I have found that folks who don't know HS rules aren't much better with college rules. You're either a rules guy, or you are not. One thing I never do is discuss college rules when doing HS pre-games; just causing confusion IMO. I don't like when partners bring up something from college games that have nothing do with HS games.

I have had guys force a discussion of college rules because there are those that do not know the damn difference. Like when guys try to shoot the Ts out of order or go to POI on a single technical foul. So if you do not tell them, "That is a college rule" and "We are doing a high school rule" then you might have more of an argument. This happens a ton in football where the rules are vastly different, but in basketball, it is not as common.

Peace

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yeah, you can be critical, but if you were so perfect you would be there too. And there is a way to be critical. You can say that the official made a mistake without telling us how much better you would have done.

Who exactly is doing that though?

[LRZ]

Originally Posted by SC Official

In some places officials who use those signals can't overcome the powers-that-be who only want "approved" signals.

I can live with that. I was sitting in on a post-game "post mortem" once where another guy offered this criticism: "You signaled push, but it was a hold."

To me, that's an absurd focus on something relatively trivial, in the big scheme of things.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by LRZ

I can live with that. I was sitting in on a post-game "post mortem" once where another guy offered this criticism: "You signaled push, but it was a hold."

To me, that's an absurd focus on something relatively trivial, in the big scheme of things.

Giving the wrong signal, or a signal that does not fit/describe the actual type of foul that took place is not trivial.

[LRZ]

Originally Posted by johnny d

giving the wrong signal, or a signal that does not fit/describe the actual type of foul that took place is not trivial.

ok.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by LRZ

I can live with that. I was sitting in on a post-game "post mortem" once where another guy offered this criticism: "You signaled push, but it was a hold."

To me, that's an absurd focus on something relatively trivial, in the big scheme of things.

That's a completely different issue than what I was referring to. Both "push" and "hold" are signals in NFHS. You shouldn't use one when what happened was actually the other. (And when you run into a smart coach and use the wrong signal, he/she will say "that's not what happened" and be right.)

I'm referring to officials being criticized for using a signal that shows exactly what happened on the play even though it's not one of the signals in the book (e.g. "hit to the head").

[LRZ]

Originally Posted by SC Official

That's a completely different issue than what I was referring to. Both "push" and "hold" are signals in NFHS. You shouldn't use one when what happened was actually the other. (And when you run into a smart coach and use the wrong signal, he/she will say "that's not what happened" and be right.)

I'm referring to officials being criticized for using a signal that shows exactly what happened on the play even though it's not one of the signals in the book (e.g. "hit to the head").

You are right, a different issue, but related. What I meant to suggest is an over-emphasis on signals, instead of the more important question: did the ref get the call right?

There are many more signals now than when I started. It's just my opinion, but I don't think officiating has necessarily been improved by that proliferation or by the mechanical application of mechanics. I also think that kind of micro-management makes the game harder to officiate. I've heard guys get dinged for signaling fouls with their fist facing the "wrong" way. That's ridiculous, in my book, as silly as dinging someone for signaling "hit on the head."

I acknowledge that I'm probably a minority--maybe a minority of one. I work hard, I hustle, I'm pretty good on the rules. If I use the wrong signal or mimic a foul with an unauthorized gesture, I still call a pretty good game.