Kansas HS foul

[BryanV21]

He gone!

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[bucky]

This is one of those sports plays that is severe enough to bring a lawsuit.

I would have ejected before offensive player hit the stanchion.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

He gone!

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Indeed, no way am I not ejecting him after this. In NCAA basketball (presumably all divisions have video replay for the national tournament, correct me if I am wrong), if the official did not call this a Flagrant 2, instant replay would have upgraded the foul to a Flagrant 2, leading to the player being disqualified. I would have ejected him before it went to replay in an NCAA game. In basketball under NFHS rules, I would have ejected him outright. This foul is an absolute disgrace.

[Kelvin green]

Plain and simple ejection. Then as soon as the defender’s coach opened his mouth and says anything about the call, he picks up his first.....

[bondguy]

From a NFHS mechanics standpoint, how should this be handled?

If the official's first reaction is to give the intentional foul signal, is the official committing himself to an intentional foul and no ejection? (A state championship official once told me this.)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bondguy

From a NFHS mechanics standpoint, how should this be handled?

If the official's first reaction is to give the intentional foul signal, is the official committing himself to an intentional foul and no ejection? (A state championship official once told me this.)

There is no flagrant foul signal (unlike college). So that signal is appropriate and acceptable. Then if they were to decide it was flagrant, they report it to the table as such, inform the coach (as they would any disqualified player), give them time to sub in the player by rule and then shoot the FTs for the flagrant act. I even think it is acceptable to give the "you're out" signal when reporting the foul after you give the color and number of the player.

But in no way does the signal boxy you in. You do not even have to give the signal at all, but since intentional fouls have more penalities related, you can always upgrade. I would not downgrade if I gave that signal.

Peace

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is no flagrant foul signal (unlike college). So that signal is appropriate and acceptable. Then if they were to decide it was flagrant, they report it to the table as such, inform the coach (as they would any disqualified player), give them time to sub in the player by rule and then shoot the FTs for the flagrant act. I even think it is acceptable to give the "you're out" signal when reporting the foul after you give the color and number of the player.

But in no way does the signal boxy you in. You do not even have to give the signal at all, but since intentional fouls have more penalities related, you can always upgrade. I would not downgrade if I gave that signal.

Peace

I agree with this. We were always taught you can upgrade a foul (personal to intentional, intentional to flagrant) but not to downgrade (i.e., can't put the toothpaste back in the tube once you call a "T").

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Rufus

I agree with this. We were always taught you can upgrade a foul (personal to intentional, intentional to flagrant) but not to downgrade (i.e., can't put the toothpaste back in the tube once you call a "T").

Yes you can. I once called a T on a coach only to realize it was the a$$hat parent couple rows behind him that sounds just like him. I rescinded that pretty quickly.

As for this call...wow.

[bondguy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is no flagrant foul signal (unlike college). So that signal is appropriate and acceptable. Then if they were to decide it was flagrant, they report it to the table as such, inform the coach (as they would any disqualified player), give them time to sub in the player by rule and then shoot the FTs for the flagrant act. I even think it is acceptable to give the "you're out" signal when reporting the foul after you give the color and number of the player.

But in no way does the signal boxy you in. You do not even have to give the signal at all, but since intentional fouls have more penalities related, you can always upgrade. I would not downgrade if I gave that signal.

Peace

Thank you. That helps a lot.

[TopicalTropical]

I was talking to a new ref recently about how he didn't call an easy intentional foul in the game, I ended up calling it. No issue, the coach said it was the right call. I also did the same thing my first year. Sometimes things happen that are really unexpected and you just aren't mentally ready to make the right call. Now it is easier for me and just becomes sort of automatic. Not sure what happened here and if that is the case. Also, in this situation I would want the refs to gather and talk it over. For intentional fouls or ejection type calls I would have no issue with the other refs trying to get the call upgraded. Yeah, maybe he didn't think the push was too hard and the player's momentum carried him. But if there are three refs on the court and all clearly got a good look at a foul from behind then logically you think they would have ejected the player.