Two wierd plays

[Mregor]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

However, if the ball rolls under the bleacher, or a kind fan picks up the ball and tosses it to A1.....?

I'd probably have a 5 second violation by then.

Mregor

[Camron Rust]

I actually think both are violations.

For #1, the moment A2 steps OOB, it's a throwin violation for having more than 1 player OOB during a spot throwin.

For #2, I can't believe so many feel this is legal. Passes are allowed along/outside the endline. They are not allowed outside the sideline (which this becomes). The endline stops at the corner. It's not what the players intended to do that matters but what they actually did.

Consider the same pass but as a bounce pass. If it bounces inbounds by 1", it is no longer a pass between OOB teammates but has become the throw-in. When it touches the wall/bleachers (it's not coming back unless it does), it is OOB and a throw-in violation.

[Jurassic Referee]

We have had these arguments before.I lean towards Camron's point of view.

[garote]

Comment on Sit 1:

Player from White purposely goes out of bounds to avoid his defender.

Why do I have in my mind that it's a Technical Foul???

Was it once a Tech. then changed to a Violation

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
I actually think both are violations.
For #2, I can't believe so many feel this is legal. Passes are allowed along/outside the endline. They are not allowed outside the sideline (which this becomes). The endline stops at the corner. It's not what the players intended to do that matters but what they actually did.

If the endline stops at the corner why does the sideline continue past the corner? Paraphrasing Chuck: is there some double secret special property that sidelines have that endlines do not?

BTW, I completely miss the point of your analogy.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

If the endline stops at the corner why does the sideline continue past the corner? Paraphrasing Chuck: is there some double secret special property that sidelines have that endlines do not?

BTW, I completely miss the point of your analogy.

I mangled it...

If the endline continues past the corner then so would the sideline.

I just can't fathom a bad pass bouncing off the wall/bleachers being allowed to remain in play. It seems comletely cotrary to what make sense.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

I mangled it...

If the endline continues past the corner then so would the sideline.

Which means the ball remains beyond the endline (more on this follows). And I can't find anywhere in the rules where it says the throw-in must remain on any particular side of the sideline except as it relates directly to the act of passing the ball inbounds. However....

Upon rereading the original sitch I agree that the ball should made dead when it hits the bleachers or wall on the pass - A.D.D. must have taken hold as I thought the ball was merely rolling around near the bleachers (too many damn words nevada!). Sorry. But I do not think we have a violation yet, potentially it's just a do-over. As to your point - again, after asking my 8 year old neice to help me with the big words in nevada's post - I can see what you're saying about the ball potentially being on the wrong side of the endline. I agree it's a violation if it passes *over* the endline on the pass (or if A2's deflection causes this) & lands on the OOB side of the sideline. If it hits the bleachers or a wall on the OOB side of the endline then it's a do-over, regardless of which side of the sideline this happens.

Agree?

[Jurassic Referee]

Would anybody here let a player throwing the ball in on the end line go past the intersection of the endline with the sideline,and then climb the side bleachers,and make the throw-in from about 10 rows up?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by garote
Comment on Sit 1:

Player from White purposely goes out of bounds to avoid his defender.

Why do I have in my mind that it's a Technical Foul???

Was it once a Tech. then changed to a Violation

It's still a T.The key word is "purposely".The language says "leave the court for an unauthorized reason". Rule reference is R10-3-4. What they're arguing here is "What came first?The chicken or the egg?"-ie the violation or the T.

[garote]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

It's still a T.The key word is "purposely".The language says "leave the court for an unauthorized reason". Rule reference is R10-3-4. What they're arguing here is "What came first?The chicken or the egg?"-ie the violation or the T.

Thanks for your help Jurassic!!!!!

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
I just can't fathom a bad pass bouncing off the wall/bleachers being allowed to remain in play. It seems comletely cotrary to what make sense.

It may be, Camron, but I honestly can't think of a rule that makes it illegal.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

It may be, Camron, but I honestly can't think of a rule that makes it illegal.

Can you think of a rule that would also make illegal A1's passing the ball OOB along the end line to A2 who is standing up in the side bleachers,but is behind the end line,and then A2 makes the throw in? Would you allow that?

[Hawks Coach]

On the pas under the bleachers, I agree with the crowd that would keep the count going. they caused their own problem, let them deal with it.

As for the ball beyond the sideline but still behind endline extended, my question would be this: Would you allow a person to inbound the ball on one of these plays where the first place it enters the court is the sideline. It seems to me that the intent of the rule is still that the ball must enter the court directly when it crosses the endline. But if the ball is past the sideline, it wil enter the court sometime after it crosses the plane of the endline extended, after it also crosses the sideline.

I have never considered this rule to allow this type of situation to occur. To pass directly onto the court should only involve the boundary in question, either the sideline or the endline. Would you allow a person to step to a place where they could have the first court entry be at halfcourt when the endline is the boundary? I would argue strongly against this, but have no rule or case to back this up. It just seems to go with the intent of the rule.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Would you allow a person to inbound the ball on one of these plays where the first place it enters the court is the sideline.

If the D has the press on and is pressuring the throw in,they can't legally follow the player throwing the ball in if he goes along the end line past it's intersection with the sideline. If the defender tries to,then now the defender is gonna be illegally OOB. Anybody here gonna call that on the defender?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by garote
Comment on Sit 1:

Player from White purposely goes out of bounds to avoid his defender.

Why do I have in my mind that it's a Technical Foul???

Was it once a Tech. then changed to a Violation

When I talked about a technical foul, this is what I was thinking of. Which I did point out by saying "If he went out to avoid a screen or get clear". I do think the better call would be the violation for having more than one person OOB during the throw-in. It solves the problem without being overly confrontational.