Oakland v Youngstown ending

[jas4yf]

Technically speaking 4-44-3b can also lead to an exception to the concept that player must be holding the ball in order to travel.

b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.

Scenario: Player jumps to shoot, realizing his shot will be blocked simply drops the ball. He then lands.

His feet have returned to the floor before the ball has been released on a pass or try for goal. This attempt to circumvent the rules is a travel.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by jas4yf

Technically speaking 4-44-3b can also lead to an exception to the concept that player must be holding the ball in order to travel.

b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.

Scenario: Player jumps to shoot, realizing his shot will be blocked simply drops the ball. He then lands.

His feet have returned to the floor before the ball has been released on a pass or try for goal. This attempt to circumvent the rules is a travel.

Not really.

The foot movement that makes it a travel occurred when the player was holding the ball.....the jump. The player lifted the pivot foot while holding the ball and then started a dribble.

[jas4yf]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not really.

The foot movement that makes it a travel occurred when the player was holding the ball.....the jump. The player lifted the pivot foot while holding the ball and then started a dribble.

I mean sure, but by that logic 4-44-5b (the exception noted earlier) is only a travel because the player had been holding the ball first.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by jas4yf

I mean sure, but by that logic 4-44-5b (the exception noted earlier) is only a travel because the player had been holding the ball first.

The difference is that every other case involves some foot movement while holding the ball. The stand-up case doesn't.

[jas4yf]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The difference is that every other case involves some foot movement while holding the ball. The stand-up case doesn't.

OK I can buy that ... you've convinced me!

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by jas4yf

Technically speaking 4-44-3b can also lead to an exception to the concept that player must be holding the ball in order to travel.

b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.

Scenario: Player jumps to shoot, realizing his shot will be blocked simply drops the ball. He then lands.

His feet have returned to the floor before the ball has been released on a pass or try for goal. This attempt to circumvent the rules is a travel.

Provided the player is the first to touch the ball after the ball bounces.
4.44.3 Situation A (d)

[jas4yf]

Originally Posted by billyu2

Provided the player is the first to touch the ball after the ball bounces.
4.44.3 Situation A (d)

I don't have my case book in front of me but a quick google returned this. Is this the case play you're referring to?

4.44.3 SITUATION A: A1 jumps to try for goal. B1 also jumps and: (a) slaps the ball out of A1’s hands; (b) touches the ball but does not prevent A1 from releasing the ball; (c) touches the ball and A1 returns to the floor holding the ball; or (d) touches the ball and A1 drops it to the floor and touches it first after it bounces . RULING: In (a) and (b), the ball remains live. In (c), a traveling violation. In (d), a violation for starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor. Since the touching did not prevent the pass or try in (b), (c) and (d), the ball remains live and subsequent action is covered by rules which apply to the situation.

If so, in all of these the situation is a defender contacting the ball. The situation I described was a player dropping the ball on his own.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by jas4yf

I don't have my case book in front of me but a quick google returned this. Is this the case play you're referring to?

4.44.3 SITUATION A: A1 jumps to try for goal. B1 also jumps and: (a) slaps the ball out of A1’s hands; (b) touches the ball but does not prevent A1 from releasing the ball; (c) touches the ball and A1 returns to the floor holding the ball; or (d) touches the ball and A1 drops it to the floor and touches it first after it bounces . RULING: In (a) and (b), the ball remains live. In (c), a traveling violation. In (d), a violation for starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor. Since the touching did not prevent the pass or try in (b), (c) and (d), the ball remains live and subsequent action is covered by rules which apply to the situation.

If so, in all of these the situation is a defender contacting the ball. The situation I described was a player dropping the ball on his own.

The defender touching the ball doesn’t change the situation. The player maintained control of the ball and dropped it to the floor. The ruling says violation if the player touches it first. Interestingly, the ruling doesn’t suggest dropping the ball to the floor is illegal because at that point we really don’t know what it is. The ruling suggests it could be a “pass” or “try” in b, c and d and the ball remains live, meaning if the ball touches or is touched by any other player it simply becomes a legal pass. That is the interpretation I adhere to. Others may have different interpretations they go by.

[jas4yf]

Originally Posted by billyu2

The defender touching the ball doesn’t change the situation. The player maintained control of the ball and dropped it to the floor. The ruling says violation if the player touches it first. Interestingly, the ruling doesn’t suggest dropping the ball to the floor is illegal because at that point we really don’t know what it is. The ruling suggests it could be a “pass” or “try” in b, c and d and the ball remains live, meaning if the ball touches or is touched by any other player it simply becomes a legal pass. That is the interpretation I adhere to. Others may have different interpretations they go by.

This is certainly a good point and I'm curious to see how others interpret it. Clearly it's hard to legislate intent, but when this occurs it's usually very evident it's not a pass attempt.

Rulebook defines a pass as: A pass is movement of the ball caused by a player who throws, bats or rolls the ball to another
player.

If a player jumps for a shot, second guesses it for whatever reason and drops the ball I don't see any way one could deem that a 'throw, bat or roll' to another player. Perhaps if it occurs with a teammate so near the shooter that he is able to immediately pick up the loose ball I'd consider not blowing it, but I've never seen that occur. Granted, I've only seen the drop ball scenario happen once in 7 years too.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by billyu2

Provided the player is the first to touch the ball after the ball bounces.
4.44.3 Situation A (d)

Originally Posted by jas4yf

I don't have my case book in front of me but a quick google returned this. Is this the case play you're referring to?

4.44.3 SITUATION A: A1 jumps to try for goal. B1 also jumps and: (a) slaps the ball out of A1’s hands; (b) touches the ball but does not prevent A1 from releasing the ball; (c) touches the ball and A1 returns to the floor holding the ball; or (d) touches the ball and A1 drops it to the floor and touches it first after it bounces . RULING: In (a) and (b), the ball remains live. In (c), a traveling violation. In (d), a violation for starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor. Since the touching did not prevent the pass or try in (b), (c) and (d), the ball remains live and subsequent action is covered by rules which apply to the situation.

If so, in all of these the situation is a defender contacting the ball. The situation I described was a player dropping the ball on his own.

The case setup having a player touch the ball after it bounces does not make it a requirement for the ruling. It is an example. It does not say that it isn't a travel if the player doesn't touch it.