Oakland v Youngstown ending

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

Sorry is there an exception?

4.44.5B

Did learn something new in article 2 though:

3. On one foot, the player may jump off that foot and simultaneously land on both. Neither foot can be a pivot in this case.

Who woulda thunk?

[sdoebler]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

4.44.5B

Alright I had to read that a few times to visualize especially after ART. 5 started with A player holding the ball:

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

Alright I had to read that a few times to visualize especially after ART. 5 started with A player holding the ball:

You know my reference was a case play (dots, not dashes), right?

[sdoebler]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You know my reference was a case play (dots, not dashes), right?

Ah, I don't have my case play book at work.

[LRZ]

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control. A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without violating?
RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or request a time-out. Once A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by LRZ

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control. A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without violating?
RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or request a time-out. Once A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)

Shouldn't you have let sdoebler find it himself?

Give a man a fish and he has food for a day. Teach a man to fish and he has to buy bamboo rods, graphite reels, monofilament lines, neoprene waders, creels, tackleboxes, lures, flies, spinners, worm rigs, slip sinkers, offset hooks, gore-tex hats, 20 pocket vests, fish finders, depth sounders, radar, boats, trailers, global positioning systems, coolers, and six-packs.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by LRZ

4.44.5 SITUATION B: A1 dives for a loose ball and slides after gaining control. A1 is in a position either on his/her back or stomach. What can A1 do without violating?
RULING: A1 may pass, shoot, start a dribble or request a time-out. Once A1 has the ball and is no longer sliding, he/she may not roll over. If flat on his/her back, A1 may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to the feet is traveling unless A1 is dribbling. It is also traveling if A1 puts the ball on the floor, then rises and is first to touch the ball. (4-44-5b)

Can anyone explain the logic to this interpretation? I was aware of it but hadn't given it much thought as it is pretty uncommon. But now that I'm thinking about it, I don't think it really make sense based on the rule, given that the player is allowed to dribble. You can have virtually the same action, but if there is any slight bounce to the ball, then standing and picking the ball up simply ends the dribble. But if the ball is absolutely still, then the same act is a travel. Seems (at best) an unnecessary interpretation to add, given that the defense could just grab the ball if it was placed on the ground -- but maybe i'm missing something.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Can anyone explain the logic to this interpretation? I was aware of it but hadn't given it much thought as it is pretty uncommon. But now that I'm thinking about it, I don't think it really make sense based on the rule, given that the player is allowed to dribble. You can have virtually the same action, but if there is any slight bounce to the ball, then standing and picking the ball up simply ends the dribble. But if the ball is absolutely still, then the same act is a travel. Seems (at best) an unnecessary interpretation to add, given that the defense could just grab the ball if it was placed on the ground -- but maybe i'm missing something.

It is viewed as an attempt to circumvent the rule. Without going through the efforts of changing various rules to cover this case, perhaps making them unnecessarily complicated, they decided a simple case to handle an oddball situation was enough.

[jas4yf]

Technically speaking 4-44-3b can also lead to an exception to the concept that player must be holding the ball in order to travel.

b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.

Scenario: Player jumps to shoot, realizing his shot will be blocked simply drops the ball. He then lands.

His feet have returned to the floor before the ball has been released on a pass or try for goal. This attempt to circumvent the rules is a travel.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by jas4yf

Technically speaking 4-44-3b can also lead to an exception to the concept that player must be holding the ball in order to travel.

b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.

Scenario: Player jumps to shoot, realizing his shot will be blocked simply drops the ball. He then lands.

His feet have returned to the floor before the ball has been released on a pass or try for goal. This attempt to circumvent the rules is a travel.

Not really.

The foot movement that makes it a travel occurred when the player was holding the ball.....the jump. The player lifted the pivot foot while holding the ball and then started a dribble.

[jas4yf]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not really.

The foot movement that makes it a travel occurred when the player was holding the ball.....the jump. The player lifted the pivot foot while holding the ball and then started a dribble.

I mean sure, but by that logic 4-44-5b (the exception noted earlier) is only a travel because the player had been holding the ball first.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by jas4yf

I mean sure, but by that logic 4-44-5b (the exception noted earlier) is only a travel because the player had been holding the ball first.

The difference is that every other case involves some foot movement while holding the ball. The stand-up case doesn't.

[jas4yf]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The difference is that every other case involves some foot movement while holding the ball. The stand-up case doesn't.

OK I can buy that ... you've convinced me!

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by jas4yf

Technically speaking 4-44-3b can also lead to an exception to the concept that player must be holding the ball in order to travel.

b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.

Scenario: Player jumps to shoot, realizing his shot will be blocked simply drops the ball. He then lands.

His feet have returned to the floor before the ball has been released on a pass or try for goal. This attempt to circumvent the rules is a travel.

Provided the player is the first to touch the ball after the ball bounces.
4.44.3 Situation A (d)

[jas4yf]

Originally Posted by billyu2

Provided the player is the first to touch the ball after the ball bounces.
4.44.3 Situation A (d)

I don't have my case book in front of me but a quick google returned this. Is this the case play you're referring to?

4.44.3 SITUATION A: A1 jumps to try for goal. B1 also jumps and: (a) slaps the ball out of A1’s hands; (b) touches the ball but does not prevent A1 from releasing the ball; (c) touches the ball and A1 returns to the floor holding the ball; or (d) touches the ball and A1 drops it to the floor and touches it first after it bounces . RULING: In (a) and (b), the ball remains live. In (c), a traveling violation. In (d), a violation for starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor. Since the touching did not prevent the pass or try in (b), (c) and (d), the ball remains live and subsequent action is covered by rules which apply to the situation.

If so, in all of these the situation is a defender contacting the ball. The situation I described was a player dropping the ball on his own.