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Old Sat Jan 20, 2018, 01:14pm
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Backcourt Violation Trivia #427

This just in:

A1 is dribbling about 8 ft inside his front court. B1 deflects the ball which slowly starts to bounce toward the division line. T withholds deflection signal because the ball does not yet have backcourt status. A1 and B1 both go for the ball. A1 slips and ends up prone on his stomach, bisecting the division line. A1 then reaches to the ball and touches it; the ball never got to the backcourt.

What do you have?


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Old Sat Jan 20, 2018, 01:16pm
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Helpful Hint ...

The four elements for having a backcourt violation are: there must be team control (and initial player control
when coming from a throw-in); the ball must have achieved frontcourt status; the team in team control must
be the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt; that same team must be the first to touch after
the ball has been in the backcourt.
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Old Sat Jan 20, 2018, 01:24pm
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Thank you for the cut-and-paste from your favorites file, Billy.


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Old Sat Jan 20, 2018, 01:29pm
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Printing Press, Great Invention ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
Thank you for the cut-and-paste from your favorites file, Billy.
One accumulates a lot of stuff on one's hard drive, or on one's papyrus scrolls, over thirty-seven years.
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Old Sat Jan 20, 2018, 10:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
This just in:

A1 is dribbling about 8 ft inside his front court. B1 deflects the ball which slowly starts to bounce toward the division line. T withholds deflection signal because the ball does not yet have backcourt status. A1 and B1 both go for the ball. A1 slips and ends up prone on his stomach, bisecting the division line. A1 then reaches to the ball and touches it; the ball never got to the backcourt.

What do you have?


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I have seen this a few times from forum members. Why withhold the tip signal because the ball does not yet have BC status? That makes no sense. The whole point of the signal was to immediately communicate to the offense that they could go get it first.

If you wait, then there would be times where this is not communicated but yet they can get it.

From the NFHS slide: "A defensive touch signal was added to indicate the ball was touched by the defense prior to going into the backcourt from the frontcourt."

Note the word "prior". Was something released to indicate otherwise? I do not recall seeing anything so correct me if I am wrong.

OP: BC violation
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Old Sat Jan 20, 2018, 10:58pm
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Who was last to touch in front court?

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Old Sun Jan 21, 2018, 09:47am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
This just in:

A1 is dribbling about 8 ft inside his front court. B1 deflects the ball which slowly starts to bounce toward the division line. T withholds deflection signal because the ball does not yet have backcourt status. A1 and B1 both go for the ball. A1 slips and ends up prone on his stomach, bisecting the division line. A1 then reaches to the ball and touches it; the ball never got to the backcourt.

What do you have?


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This play is no diferent from the usual "B1 deflects, A1 catches the ball in the BC" play.

By NFHS interp, it's a violation. By the rule, and by NCAA (at least NCAAW) interp, it's legal.
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Old Sun Jan 21, 2018, 10:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
I have seen this a few times from forum members. Why withhold the tip signal because the ball does not yet have BC status? That makes no sense. The whole point of the signal was to immediately communicate to the offense that they could go get it first.

If you wait, then there would be times where this is not communicated but yet they can get it.

From the NFHS slide: "A defensive touch signal was added to indicate the ball was touched by the defense prior to going into the backcourt from the frontcourt."

Note the word "prior". Was something released to indicate otherwise? I do not recall seeing anything so correct me if I am wrong.

OP: BC violation
If you give the signal in the OP then, rightfully, call the BC violation then have fun explaining to the coach why you called the violation after signaling that his team could go get it.

Don't get me wrong... I understand what you're saying, and actually agree, but this is a case where giving the signal before the ball is in the BC can backfire.

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Old Sun Jan 21, 2018, 11:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
This play is no diferent from the usual "B1 deflects, A1 catches the ball in the BC" play.



By NFHS interp, it's a violation. By the rule, and by NCAA (at least NCAAW) interp, it's legal.

Thats what I thought when I called the violation. I withheld the signal based on conversations had on this forum, and noted that the simultaneous last to touch and first to touch was just like the controversial interpretation oft discussed here.

At this point Im exhausted about rule versus interp. What I do know is that there was an interp several years ago that the NFHS has doubled down on in the last few years. So.....violation called by yours truly, the rank-and-file official.



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Old Sun Jan 21, 2018, 04:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
If you give the signal in the OP then, rightfully, call the BC violation then have fun explaining to the coach why you called the violation after signaling that his team could go get it.

Don't get me wrong... I understand what you're saying, and actually agree, but this is a case where giving the signal before the ball is in the BC can backfire.

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I have had this situation a few times and the explanation was welcomed and understood. Additionally, giving the tip signal can backfire in other situations too. It is not a perfect thing to have. Use it early and can have issues. Wait, use it, and can have issues. Don't use it and can have issues.

BTW, I wished my words were "..immediately communicate that there was a defensive deflection."
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Old Sun Jan 21, 2018, 05:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
I have had this situation a few times and the explanation was welcomed and understood. Additionally, giving the tip signal can backfire in other situations too. It is not a perfect thing to have. Use it early and can have issues. Wait, use it, and can have issues. Don't use it and can have issues.

BTW, I wished my words were "..immediately communicate that there was a defensive deflection."
It's a no win situation

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