Coaches Behavior

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by ODog

Correct me if I'm wrong (and it's definitely possible!), but weren't you the poster who within the last year or so spoke with pride about having never issued a coach a technical in a varsity game?

Originally Posted by AremRed

Close, it was actually 2 years ago. Good memory.

Over 500 games and no coach T’s is not coincidental or an indicator of good game management; it’s an unwillingness to penalize unacceptable behavior.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by ODog

Correct me if I'm wrong (and it's definitely possible!), but weren't you the poster who within the last year or so spoke with pride about having never issued a coach a technical in a varsity game?

Wow! Quite the memory!

In the past yearish, I have handed out a couple of Ts to players. None to coaches. That is what I meant about taking care of business. I do not tolerate unruly behavior from kids. Usually a stern verbal warning before we get a necessary technical works for me. If you see it coming and know the history of behavior of the participants, you can usually stop inappropriate behavior/actions before they really get going.

I don't believe we were talking about unruly coaches were we? I thought it was fans we were talking about?

If you want to bring up coaches, no, I haven't Td one up yet. I haven't needed to. To some on this board, it means that I'm letting too much go. In reality, we have very good coaches in this area that know where the line is and don't cross it. My methods of communication with coaches has kept them from reaching the boiling point. Everybody has their own things that work. What I have done has worked and has kept me from getting to the point of a technical foul.

That does not mean I am a perfect official. It means that I have been fortunate enough to work for good coaches that don't throw their anger at me. The day will come I'm sure.

From the sounds of it, most of you guys work teams that you are not familiar with and don't see very often. It's the opposite for me. We know pretty much ALL of the teams, coaches, and players well. Not socially or personally, but from seeing them so many times on the court. I believe that makes our job in this area easier. The coaches and players know what the lines are and not to cross them.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Close, it was actually 2 years ago. Good memory.

What does that have to do with the topic at hand? I provided a response above.

Yes, I agree, very good memory. Whether you whack a coach or not does not equate to you being a good or bad official. I know some disagree with that statement.

As explained in length above, I haven't needed to yet. We have plenty of respect and professionalism in our area. It seems like a lot of you are dealing with the opposite in your areas. I suppose there are many reasons why.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Over 500 games and no coach T’s is not coincidental or an indicator of good game management; it’s an unwillingness to penalize unacceptable behavior.

Who said anything about 500 games? Your statement about "unwillingness to penalize unacceptable behavior" is your opinion. It doesn't make you a better official than me or anybody else. I could take the opposite approach and say that you are a hot head with a short fuse. I don't believe that, but that's the approach you are taking.

As I stated above, we have a very good level of respect and professionalism in our area. It seems you guys are dealing with the opposite.

I am picturing the types of people you guys are dealing with and I'm glad that we don't have much of that, if any, in our areas. I'm picturing the crowds, coaches, and players that we see in preseason meeting videos and viral videos on the internet. I imagine you guys deal with that type of nonsense. It may hard for most of you to believe or accept, but where I am at, that is the exception and not the rule. In our area, if you are a good official, you get the respect and professionalism that we all deserve.

[Raymond]

I have issued 4 coaches warnings so far.

2 of them were in the last 2-3 minutes of games issued to the HCs who were winning but were continually harping about a call they didn't like.

One was issued to a coach early in the 3rd quarter after complaining on 3 consecutive possessions about no-calls. He was fine the rest of the game.

The 4th was for a coach who started in early and I gave him a warning late in the 1st quarter. Then in the 3rd quarter one of my partners was about to issue that same HC a warning when he caught eye contact with me and remembered I had already issued a warning. So he issued a T instead like the rule intended.

It has been a while since I have T'd up a HS coach (it's been so long I don't remember). I have T'd up 2 college HCs this season. Neither was a problem after the receiving their T's.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

If you want to bring up coaches, no, I haven't Td one up yet. I haven't needed to. To some on this board, it means that I'm letting too much go. In reality, we have very good coaches in this area that know where the line is and don't cross it. My methods of communication with coaches has kept them from reaching the boiling point. Everybody has their own things that work. What I have done has worked and has kept me from getting to the point of a technical foul.

I have heard some guys make similar statements. I have also seen these same guys get raked over hot coals by coaches. Don't be "that guy".

[VaTerp]

Perhaps the discussion about fan behavior and removing spectators should have its own thread since this originated as one about coach/player behavior. Entirely different animals IMO.

With regard to the official warning I had it in my head- likely from being stubborn, resistant to change, or just ego- that I was not going to use it.

I've only had one partner use it and though I didn't like the way we administered it; it worked like a charm. Got a whiny coach to basically act like a church mouse the rest of the game.

Based on that and the experiences shared here I think I will now incorporate it into my games. Maybe it would have helped avoid some of the Ts and poor behavior I've had recently as intended.

[sdoebler]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

If you want to bring up coaches, no, I haven't Td one up yet. I haven't needed to. To some on this board, it means that I'm letting too much go. In reality, we have very good coaches in this area that know where the line is and don't cross it. My methods of communication with coaches has kept them from reaching the boiling point. Everybody has their own things that work. What I have done has worked and has kept me from getting to the point of a technical foul.

There is no line..... you have never T'd them.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

There is no line..... you have never T'd them.

To be fair, we don't know that. Maybe he's just been the most fortunate official to ever bless this forum in terms of coach's behavior. Maybe the SD stands for San Diego and the coaches are always in a good mood due to the beautiful weather and scenery.

We can keep attacking the source and most likely, he's missed opportunities to serve coaches some deserving tea.

But I still agree with him that, without additional context, tossing spectators for saying "you're terrible" or "you should be ashamed of yourself" or even "you're cheating our girls" is not good practice and not something ANY of the HS assigners I have ever work for would support privately.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

To be fair, we don't know that. Maybe he's just been the most fortunate official to ever bless this forum in terms of coach's behavior. Maybe the SD stands for San Diego and the coaches are always in a good mood due to the beautiful weather and scenery.

We can keep attacking the source and most likely, he's missed opportunities to serve coaches some deserving tea.

But I still agree with him that, without additional context, tossing spectators for saying "you're terrible" or "you should be ashamed of yourself" or even "you're cheating our girls" is not good practice and not something ANY of the HS assigners I have ever work for would support privately.

To be fair, the assumption that the context did not warrant ejection is just not fair. Why not give the benefit of the doubt to the official if you were not there to see it for yourself?

To be fair, unless you are an "assignor", maybe you should not speak for your assignor.

[JRutledge]

We cannot get caught up in personal experiences. There are always going to be things that one person would take care of and another would pass on. I know just in this year I have some interesting situations where I know I passed on and others I felt I had to address. Sometimes it is not what is actually said, but the behavior with the actions.

I had a coach last night get all upset because he had a player get fouled and he went to the "my players are going to get hurt" BS line. I then told him without hesitation, "First of all, stop telling me what to do and if you do not want your players to get hurt, basketball is not the sport to play." I would not have done that normally, but it was a total over reaction to a couple of very, minor contact fouls (that were called BTW) as if he had players getting knocked out. It also did not help that he had tattoos down his arm and he looked like a biker rather than a high school basketball coach. But to each his own on that one. I later gave him a warning for his little display and he realized I was not playing with him. Years ago that would not have been the reaction of a coach IMO, but now every little thing seems to set them off.

Peace

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by CJP

To be fair, the assumption that the context did not warrant ejection is just not fair. Why not give the benefit of the doubt to the official if you were not there to see it for yourself?

To be fair, unless you are an "assignor", maybe you should not speak for your assignor.

There is a reason why I said, "without additional context."

And I know my assingors well enough and have discussed and observed enough situations with them that I feel more than comfortable saying what I said.

So you can continue to be as snide as you'd like and I will continue to offer my opinion and perspective in response to things posted as I see fit.

ETA- And it's funny how we pick and choose when to give officials the "benefit of the doubt." Your comments indicate you are not giving SD Ref the same benefit of the doubt in his interactions with coaches. J Rut offers wise words on getting caught up in personal experiences but this is also a forum where officials share those experiences and people comment on them. Sometimes others can learn from them and sometimes they can't.

[#olderthanilook]

Where is the "LIKE" button on this forum???

Originally Posted by JRutledge

We cannot get caught up in personal experiences. There are always going to be things that one person would take care of and another would pass on. I know just in this year I have some interesting situations where I know I passed on and others I felt I had to address. Sometimes it is not what is actually said, but the behavior with the actions.

I had a coach last night get all upset because he had a player get fouled and he went to the "my players are going to get hurt" BS line. I then told him without hesitation, "First of all, stop telling me what to do and if you do not want your players to get hurt, basketball is not the sport to play." I would not have done that normally, but it was a total over reaction to a couple of very, minor contact fouls (that were called BTW) as if he had players getting knocked out. It also did not help that he had tattoos down his arm and he looked like a biker rather than a high school basketball coach. But to each his own on that one. I later gave him a warning for his little display and he realized I was not playing with him. Years ago that would not have been the reaction of a coach IMO, but now every little thing seems to set them off.

Peace

[so cal lurker]

It's always tough to tell from small samples (watching my son's games), but it seems to me the bar for Ts has been pretty high. I don't think I've seen a coach Td up this year. I've seen a couple of warnings--one seemed a bit soft and one I wouldn't hve been surprised going straight to a T. I've watched rantings that I was shocked weren't Td up. Star player called for a foul (on the other team, so I'm biased, but seemd like a pretty vanilla call to me), and the coach is screaming at half court, then at the baseline while the bonus FT is being taken, then back at half court. Still screaming during the second FT. No T, no warning. So of course he is going to continue.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

Where is the "LIKE" button on this forum???

While a like button might work for the forum, and it might work for the specific post you quoted, it wouldn't be appropriate for this thread, imo.