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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 08, 2018, 10:07am
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"60 or 30, coach?"

Here's the situation:

Great game between two quality teams that are well coached. Home coach is a great guy, always very complimentary of me. He pulled me aside after I had him last time and said my crew was lucky to have me, which is one of the very few times a coach has said something like that to me.

Home team ranked #10. They come out sluggish and visiting team goes up pretty big. Home coach wants a timeout and I hear a player request the TO. I grant the timeout to the player and ask coach whether he wants 60 or 30. He doesn't respond, he's focused on how terribly they're playing and coaching them. I move closer to him and say again, "full or 30, coach?" Nothing. Look at assistant. "60 or 30, coach?" Also focused on game plan and players, no response. Full it is.

I report to the opposing coaches and my partners that's a 60 second TO, report it to the table and start the timer. Heading to my timeout spot, he realizes I granted a full and starts going nuts saying he only wanted a 30. I say "sorry coach, I asked you 3 times and you didn't respond." He says he said 30 when he requested it, but I didn't hear him request it, I heard the player. I tried to explain that but he was pretty upset, and it wasn't a great way to start the game. Assistant says he said 30 too, but I'm 100% sure he didn't say anything. I was on the far block, so ended up as T on the throw in and he was in my ear about it. I apologized and told him again what happened. Here are a few questions, and if you have any further advice or how you would have handled it please chime in.

1. After he told me he wanted the 30, should I have just changed it? I think no, because the timer was started and this would probably miff the opposing coach. Also, I wouldn't have rule support for this.

2. When they don't tell you what they want, do you go full? I always have and have never really had a problem.

3. What should I learn from this? I feel like I probably could have done something differently, but I just can't really put my finger on what exactly that is.

Normally, I wouldn't really think too much about this but he is usually a really level headed guy and I like him. I feel like I've done a pretty good job of working on my goal this year-- coach communication. But I feel like there has to be something I can take away from this.

Last edited by UNIgiantslayers; Mon Jan 08, 2018 at 10:35am. Reason: Changed “full” to “30” in question 1.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 08, 2018, 10:27am
Courageous When Prudent
 
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If I get no immediate response, I observe what the requesting team is doing as they gather. If the players stay standing up I go with a 30. If they head to the seats, I give them a full.

I'm rarely going to ask more than once.
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Old Mon Jan 08, 2018, 11:58am
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I’m in same camp as Raymond.


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Old Mon Jan 08, 2018, 12:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
If I get no immediate response, I observe what the requesting team is doing as they gather. If the players stay standing up I go with a 30. If they head to the seats, I give them a full.

I'm rarely going to ask more than once.
Bingo. Read the team if they don't tell you the first time.
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Old Mon Jan 08, 2018, 12:19pm
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That's why I keep coming back here. Thanks, guys.
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Old Mon Jan 08, 2018, 12:40pm
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I also agree with BNR, BDR, and RICH (that's his actual name, not a set of initials).

To add to that, if you get guys who sit, and you therefore grant the 60, and then the coach says, "but I wanted a 30?!", I don't have any sympathy for the coach because he should know better. Of course I explain it more professionally, i.e. "Ok, coach, but your guys can only sit during a 60, so that told me that you wanted a 60."

Another thing I've learned is that you typically default to a 60 if reasonable efforts to quickly discern the desired length are ignored. Your mileage may vary, but that seems to be the majority opinion around the country.

I would say that a coach getting this upset about the length of a timeout is pretty rare. Most of the time, a coach might get just a little annoyed, but in the grand scheme of things it's small potatoes and he/she moves on very quickly (after all, you get five TOs, and most games not all TOs are used anyway).
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Old Mon Jan 08, 2018, 01:32pm
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This is about the only thing in my pregame with coaches that I consider to be significant. I tell them "We're not going to chase you into the huddle begging for an answer. If you want a 30 make sure we see a signal, otherwise you WILL get a full."

It's never been a problem.
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Old Mon Jan 08, 2018, 01:48pm
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I tell the coaches (in the pregame meeting) that we will echo their request to make sure we have the same thing. If we've not done so, then we don't have it. It closes the communication loop. This prevents having to interrupt them after they've "started" their timeout and it doesn't require any guessing or inferring.
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Old Mon Jan 08, 2018, 02:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
This is about the only thing in my pregame with coaches that I consider to be significant. I tell them "We're not going to chase you into the huddle begging for an answer. If you want a 30 make sure we see a signal, otherwise you WILL get a full."

It's never been a problem.
My pregame meeting with both coaches at the same time (required here) consists of “Players legally equipped?” and “Let us know if you have any questions.” My meetings are very brief, perhaps out of spite for some of the guys I work with who like to recite the entire book.

That being said, I have no issue with saying what you say in your pregame and might even incorporate it into mine. While I’m at it, I’m going to start asking for the speaking captain, remind everyone we’re playing the blue line all the way around, and tell everyone “white talk to white, blue talk to blue.”
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Old Mon Jan 08, 2018, 02:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
My pregame meeting with both coaches at the same time (required here) consists of “Players legally equipped?” and “Let us know if you have any questions.” My meetings are very brief, perhaps out of spite for some of the guys I work with who like to recite the entire book.

That being said, I have no issue with saying what you say in your pregame and might even incorporate it into mine. While I’m at it, I’m going to start asking for the speaking captain, remind everyone we’re playing the blue line all the way around, and tell everyone “white talk to white, blue talk to blue.”
Likewise

Don't forget to congratulate them on making varsity.
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Old Mon Jan 08, 2018, 03:46pm
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This was discussed at my association meeting last night--it seems around here the "When in Rome" thing to do is if they don't give you an answer, default to a full.

No clue if this is proper procedure elsewhere.
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Old Mon Jan 08, 2018, 04:18pm
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Why do we need to say something in the pregame that coaches already know? They know they are supposed to tell you what kind of timeout they want. If they do not know that, they will figure it out when we go with the timeout they did not tell us about. I never tell coaches anything in the pre-game about timeout communication. It is often a waste of time and they tell us anyway. At least that is the case with the varsity coaches.

Peace
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Old Mon Jan 08, 2018, 04:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Why do we need to say something in the pregame that coaches already know? They know they are supposed to tell you what kind of timeout they want. If they do not know that, they will figure it out when we go with the timeout they did not tell us about. I never tell coaches anything in the pre-game about timeout communication. It is often a waste of time and they tell us anyway. At least that is the case with the varsity coaches.

Peace
50% of the time I can make eye contact with an AC and he will let me know.

But I guess since I don't run over to the HC and ask him an explicit question, I'm not communicating.
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Old Mon Jan 08, 2018, 04:46pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
50% of the time I can make eye contact with an AC and he will let me know.

But I guess since I don't run over to the HC and ask him an explicit question, I'm not communicating.
It is not uncommon that the AC is the one that clarifies their choice. By rule the HC is supposed to give the information, but if the AC is that disconnected then that is not my issue, that is the team's issue.

Peace
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Old Mon Jan 08, 2018, 06:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Why do we need to say something in the pregame that coaches already know? They know they are supposed to tell you what kind of timeout they want. If they do not know that, they will figure it out when we go with the timeout they did not tell us about. I never tell coaches anything in the pre-game about timeout communication. It is often a waste of time and they tell us anyway. At least that is the case with the varsity coaches.

Peace
Thats the norm here and it drives me nuts. "Coaches, help us out on full or 30's" 9x out 10, I still find myself asking them what they want.

Also, I am not really a fan of telling kids "white talk to white, blue talk to blue" Its another do as they do in Rome thing, but where does it stop. Again 9x out of 10, the kid coming to the pre-game conference isn't the knot-head that is going to run his mouth.

I do tell them if they have questions come ask myself or my partners, I want them to know as a captain I may need them later in the game to go tell their teammate to knock it off.

My 2 cents...
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