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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 18, 2017, 09:35am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
JV games don't have star players.


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Will you come around to my games and explain that to the JV coaches? Because they don't seem to be generally aware of that.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 18, 2017, 09:43am
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Originally Posted by ODog View Post
I agree with the overall sentiments and responses expressed here, but this is major factor that might mitigate things for me.
I was thinking the same. We all know the rule, but let's keep in mind that it's a JV game. A teaching opportunity. Not a situation to show that you are the "law" and know the rule book by heart.

Obviously a varsity game is different. Having 19 girls on a JV team probably makes it hard to find 19 of the same jersey with different numbers for some schools. Sometimes it comes down to resources and economics.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 18, 2017, 09:44am
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Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
Somebody once told me, if you don't have the guts to make that call at the middle school/JV level, what makes you think others will have confidence in you to do it at the varsity level?
That person is another example of trying to be the "law" in a JV game and showing everybody how well they know the rules.

It's a JV game. Not the state championship.

Not enforcing it in a JV game does not translate to guts of any degree.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 18, 2017, 09:47am
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I think this is off.

In football, we ignore illegal or duplicate numbers at lower levels. We're strict at the varsity level. Has nothing to do with guts, but the realization that they get hand-me-down uniforms and everyone gets that and nobody cares about being strict with it.

In hoops, I would be the same way at certain levels. Know the audience and the customer. JV? Middle ground.


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Exactly!

There's no reason to be an as$ at the JV level. It's very common for JV teams to not have enough of the same uniform. 19???????? Come on. I think very few of us have seen 19 players on a JV team.

I would guess that most of us would know the proper protocol in this situation. An assignor agreeing just means your leadership is equally over the top in regards to this.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 18, 2017, 09:49am
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Originally Posted by Eastshire View Post
However, duplicate numbers is a fixable issue which has a tremendous chance of creating a huge headache during the game when you get into an unsolvable argument over which 32 got the foul in the second quarter and there's no way the star player has fouled out.
Who gets into an unsolvable argument in a JV game? It's not the state championship. If you have a crew and a an official book/table crew worth a darn, this won't even be an issue.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 18, 2017, 10:01am
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We make sure there are no duplicate numbers at lower levels here... at a certain point though (9th grade and below, usually) other uniform issues are ignored.

At least for me, this is usually for foul-counting purposes... if you have three players wearing #32, and they pick up 7 fouls combined (say, 5-2-0), we don't have a good way to tell which player has fouled out of the game.

Four strips of athletic tape (one on each side of the jersey) quickly turns 3 #32s into #2, #3, and #32. If #2 or #3 are already in use, we can create #82 and #38, which is good enough for me in a lower level game, despite those technically being illegal also.

Other sports (football) don't have this issue (save flagrant fouls and unsportsmanlike fouls, but I've yet to see that be a problem).

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If you have a crew and a an official book/table crew worth a darn, this won't even be an issue.
Having a table crew that's worth a darn is a fairly optimistic ask at these levels.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 18, 2017, 10:15am
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Originally Posted by jTheUmp View Post
We make sure there are no duplicate numbers at lower levels here... at a certain point though (9th grade and below, usually) other uniform issues are ignored.

At least for me, this is usually for foul-counting purposes... if you have three players wearing #32, and they pick up 7 fouls combined (say, 5-2-0), we don't have a good way to tell which player has fouled out of the game.

Four strips of athletic tape (one on each side of the jersey) quickly turns 3 #32s into #2, #3, and #32. If #2 or #3 are already in use, we can create #82 and #38, which is good enough for me in a lower level game, despite those technically being illegal also.

Other sports (football) don't have this issue (save flagrant fouls and unsportsmanlike fouls, but I've yet to see that be a problem).


Having a table crew that's worth a darn is a fairly optimistic ask at these levels.
I understand your take and don't necessarily disagree with you.

Luckily for me, where we work, the table crew is the same that works the varsity game(s). Identical numbers are not an issue.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 18, 2017, 10:26am
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Originally Posted by SD Referee View Post
Who gets into an unsolvable argument in a JV game? It's not the state championship. If you have a crew and a an official book/table crew worth a darn, this won't even be an issue.
I don't because I don't allow duplicate numbers.

Yes, there are uniform issues which aren't important in non-Varsity contests. Uniform numbers are not one of those issues.

The rules which, IMHO, can be relaxed in lower level contests are those which do not affect the actual playing rules, game administration, and safety. Since duplicate numbers affect game administration, we're going to grab some athletic tape and get the problem solved.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 18, 2017, 10:31am
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I've only seen this at the youth level and they always seem to know what kid got the foul.

I'm just happy, typically, if the JV crew doesn't call 50 fouls (30 of which were avoidable) amd we stsrt on time.


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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 18, 2017, 12:43pm
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Originally Posted by jTheUmp View Post
We make sure there are no duplicate numbers at lower levels here... Four strips of athletic tape (one on each side of the jersey) quickly turns 3 #32s into #2, #3, and #32.
And for that reason, local supervisors will not allow duplicate numbers, at any level. I reached out and got confirmation here. When in Rome...
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 18, 2017, 12:50pm
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Originally Posted by bainsey View Post
And for that reason, local supervisors will not allow duplicate numbers, at any level. I reached out and got confirmation here. When in Rome...
Well said my friend!

I still think you and your assignor are being a little over the top, but if that's protocol in your area then more power to you guys.

In my area, identical numbers are not an issue as we have really good table workers. Nobody in our area seems to mind. I suppose the first time there is a huge problem that could change. Then again, it's JV so how huge could a problem be?
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 18, 2017, 01:21pm
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Originally Posted by SD Referee View Post
Well said my friend!

I still think you and your assignor are being a little over the top, but if that's protocol in your area then more power to you guys.

In my area, identical numbers are not an issue as we have really good table workers. Nobody in our area seems to mind. I suppose the first time there is a huge problem that could change. Then again, it's JV so how huge could a problem be?
I love these magical lands where no one gets worked up over JV games. Every where I've worked JV is 80-90% as intense as varsity. Heck, the game where my partner was assaulted was a sophomore game.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 18, 2017, 03:43pm
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Originally Posted by Eastshire View Post
I love these magical lands where no one gets worked up over JV games. Every where I've worked JV is 80-90% as intense as varsity. Heck, the game where my partner was assaulted was a sophomore game.
Nothing magical about it. We have mostly good kids in our area and good coaches. They understand it's not the state championship and know the talent level on the floor.

If there are any problems it's with the parents that think it's the state championship and their kid is the next Michael Jordan.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 18, 2017, 04:39pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Not relevant. MS/Fr/JV get a pass on illegal uniforms....by directive from our organization. Many organizations operate that way.
Same thinking here through the OHSAA. One possible exception, I think, is that by this time JV teams should be expected to have white home jerseys; but I'm not 100% sure on that one.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 18, 2017, 05:33pm
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Back in the dark ages when I was coaching a "B" squad team (Sophomores) I had two players with the same number. One was a 6'3" Caucasian (1st string) and the other was a 5'9' African American (3rd string), I always talked to the other coach and the officials to get their ok and assured them that they would never be on the court at the same time. I always wanted each player to start at least one game so I decide to start my third string in one of the final games of the year. The other team (whose coach signed off on the two #32's when we met with the officials) is ahead by about 8-10 points in the second quarter when I decide to put my starter's in the game. The other coach immediately tells the officials that my #32 can't play because of the duplicate number and that my team should be given a "T". The officials say "Coach we went over this before the game and you gave it your ok". Coach says that there is no authority to set aside a rule. The officials look at me and I tell them that its ok to give us a "T" and that my starter who wears #32 won't play. I was a little upset with the other coach. Long story short, we end up winning by about 30 points and after the game the other coach won't look at me or shake my hand.
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