10-4-2

[Alabama_ref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Somewhere along the line this thread split into two different situations: an inbounder staying out of bounds, and a player on the court intentionally moving out of bounds.

An inbounder purposely staying out of bounds to deceive the opponent team is a technical foul.

A player on the court gaining an advantage by moving out of bounds is a violation.

Yes. That is my fault. I split the thread and accept full responsibility. I'm a newb

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Alabama_ref

I split the thread and accept full responsibility.

Some of us do it all the time (I'm one of the biggest offenders). One situation brings to mind a similar situation and it goes on from there.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by justacoach

Agree, this sitch does require a solid understanding of advantage gained. That was a major point when this action changed from violation to a T several years back.

1) A player legally OOB and then returning deceitfully does require an understanding of advantage gained.

2) A player leaving the court for an unauthorized reason does not require an understanding of an advantage gained. Whether there is an advantage or not is irrelevant to leaving the court for an unauthorized reason. As soon as the player leaves the court, the violation is to be called (under NFHS rules), regardless of whether the player gains an advantage when returning to the court.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

2) A player leaving the court for an unauthorized reason does not require an understanding of an advantage gained. Whether there is an advantage or not is irrelevant to leaving the court for an unauthorized reason. As soon as the player leaves the court, the violation is to be called (under NFHS rules), regardless of whether the player gains an advantage when returning to the court.

A player shall not leave the court for an unauthorized reason.

True regarding the specific wording of the rule in question. But one should be able to intelligently apply the rules in all situations.

The Intent And Purpose Of The Rules
… it is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that it may
be intelligently applied in each play situation. A player or a team should not be
permitted an advantage which is not intended by a rule. Neither should play be
permitted to develop which may lead to placing a player at a disadvantage not
intended by a rule.

justacoach made a good point, maybe he oversold it, but it was still a good point.

Originally Posted by justacoach

... this sitch does require a solid understanding of advantage gained.

I would like to hear more about the history of this change from a violation to a technical foul.

Originally Posted by justacoach

... a major point when this action changed from violation to a T several years back.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

one should be able to intelligently apply the rules in all situations..[/I]

I don't think anything in my post implies otherwise. I was actually trying to help people intelligently apply the rule by pointing out when "advantage gained" is a consideration and when it's not.

As others have pointed out, the thread has evolved in such a way that we are now discussing two distinct rules: one a violation, and the other a technical foul. I was simply pointing out that "advantage gained" applies in the latter situation, but not in the former.

[Alabama_ref]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

1) A player legally OOB and then returning deceitfully does require an understanding of advantage gained.

2) A player leaving the court for an unauthorized reason does not require an understanding of an advantage gained. Whether there is an advantage or not is irrelevant to leaving the court for an unauthorized reason. As soon as the player leaves the court, the violation is to be called (under NFHS rules), regardless of whether the player gains an advantage when returning to the court.

Rather right or wrong. I am going to apply advantage gained in both situations in regards to making either of these calls.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

... one a violation, and the other a technical foul. I was simply pointing out that "advantage gained" applies in the latter situation, but not in the former.

Please let's (plural) not turn this thread into a general discussion regarding whether, or not, advantage/disadvantage only applies to fouls and not to violations (three seconds, ten seconds on free throws).

An offensive player going around a screen and barely stepping on a boundary line (not due to momentum, but simply because he's not looking at the boundary line, he didn't intend to run out of bounds) is a little different than an offensive player going around a screen and going three feet out of bounds because he intended to run out of bounds, he thinks that that's the only way (speed, angle, etc., ) for him to get open. The former may probably not be a violation, the latter may probably be a violation. And in the latter case, I'm not an advocate of waiting to see if his illegal advantage was successful (getting open and successfully receiving a pass).

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by justacoach

You'll learn to parse your words correctly with this crowd
Lots of sharp cookies here.

Agree, this sitch does require a solid understanding of advantage gained. That was a major point when this action changed from violation to a T several years back.

You have it backwards. It was changed from a T to a violation...unless you're going much farther back than I remember.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You have it backwards. It was changed from a T to a violation...unless you're going much farther back than I remember.

Are we talking about a player purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds; or a player leaving the court for an unauthorized reason?

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You have it backwards. It was changed from a T to a violation...unless you're going much farther back than I remember.

Mea maxima culpa, confusion in the nether reaches of my addled mind.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by justacoach

Mea maxima culpa, confusion in the nether reaches of my addled mind.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Are we talking about a player purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds; or a player leaving the court for an unauthorized reason?

Could somebody please straighten me out?

I would like to hear more about the history of this change from a violation to a technical foul, or from a technical foul to violation.

[just another ref]

With regard to advantage gained, we still must see the bigger picture. A1 makes a throw-in waits a few counts then sprints down the end line around a double screen, catches a pass and hits a three. Clear advantage gained and an easy call. But, they run the same play, B1 recognizes it and switches to pick up A1. A2 make a backdoor cut, receives a pass and shoots a layup.

The offending player doesn't have to be directly involved in the play (touch the ball) to create an advantage