Ref Shortage

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Basketball 24.4 million participants
Baseball/Softball 23.3 million participants
Soccer 13.6 million participants
Football 8.9 million participants
Ice hockey 3.1 million participants

You need to cut the numbers roughly in half for some of these to account for boys and girls participating. This would provide a truer picture of the relative popularity of these activities at the youth/HS level.

Basketball = 12.2M each
Baseball/Softball = 11.6M each
Football = 8.9M basically just boys
Soccer = 6.8M each
Ice hockey = 3.1M guessing that it's mostly boys

[Freddy]

I'm not saying I've made this shift in thinking yet, but I'm considering it.
Let me preface this comment on the topic by saying there's hardly anyone around here who does more for recruitment of officials than me. I spend more money, my own and our association's, and marshal more resources and manpower to recruit candidates for all sports we sponsor than any neighboring association in our part of the state. Not braggin', just sayin'. Now, that being said . . .
I'm wondering why I and my association are in the recruitment business at all. We don't need more of us. Coaches need more of us. AD's need more of us. The schools need more of us. We don't need more of us.
Our state's Officials Guidebook clarifies that the chief purpose of local association is training. Up until it was added several years ago, our association didn't include recruitment in its bylaws purpose and objectives. Of course, I worked to have it added. Duh.
I have not taken steps to actuate this shift in thinking and effort, but I'm wondering if it would be better to strive to put recruitment on the agenda of the coaches, AD's, and schools. Let them do the recruiting, let them send us who they get, and we'll do our best to train them and retain them as officials.
That would instill a sense of gratitute for serving officials that is lacking on the part of coaches at this time. They're the ones chasing off the candidates I'm spending my and our money and time and effort on. If they're dissatisfied with the officials they get, let them throw their own money and time and work down the drain when they abuse them and cause them to quit.
I'm just about to give up the recruiting business. It's actually counterproductive because it has fostered more an "us vs. them", adversational mentality. It's been all us doing everything to get candidates and then train them and then retain them. The other stakesholders in the equation are doing just about zero, if that. I'm wondering if there'd be more of an "we're in this together" mindset if the coaches and AD's and schools played a role in this whole issue.
They recruit 'em. We'll train 'em. Together we'll be better at retaining 'em.
Just a thought at this time.
You think?

[Camron Rust]

How many other businesses recruit competitors to join the industry? If there were fewer people coming in, it would force the schools to do something...like treating officials better. That could either be by behavioral changes or pay increases or perhaps even other changes.

[rbruno]

18 years if officiating basketball from HS varsity down to youth levels during the entire year. So I've seen all the crap we talk about from the parents, coaches and unfortunately the kids. I believe it has gotten much worse in the 18 years I have been doing this. My feeling is that youth associations, NFHS, or whatever governing body in charge has to start to set in motion a zero tolerance policy. Its about time this nonsense stops so the kids can start to have "fun" (sorry I used the F word) and the officials can just do their job and not have to "manage" anyone. It sounds impossible but I wonder what would happen after a year of no tolerance. Kick out the parents, don't allow any coach antics ( I mean none), and teach the kids that they have to just shut up and play. The nonsense behavior from all around has become the norm not the exception. This clearly needs to be reversed. I know I always comment to my partner when we do a game where players play, coaches coach, and parents clap and cheer.... Good game "just like its supposed to be."

[SheRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well here, they play many games at night. These games make very little revenue for either gender at the high school level. Same in small colleges as well. They even play soccer here on Friday nights and still not the focus that football or basketball gets. I have a good friend that is a soccer official and he makes it very clear it is nothing like football.



Since we are on the basketball site, basketball officials in our state is not at all an issue. More than enough to cover games at all levels. Now the quality of officials to cover many games might be an issue, but I am not sure that is bad either.

But those other sports are hurting big time to find people to cover games.

Peace

I'm curious to know what State this is? "basketball officials in our state is not at all an issue."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SheRef

I'm curious to know what State this is? "basketball officials in our state is not at all an issue."

My state has over 5000 (Actually 4970 officials at this week is renewal week for the coming season) basketball officials licensed. We do not have a shortage anywhere to working high school sports in basketball. In other sports, yes. But not here. The only issue might be the quality in some places, but there are games being covered all over the place. Even when someone gets hurt or sick, the issue is not if someone can come and fill in, but who can fill in. And I also think because of the training that we do here as well, many officials can step in and fill in the games.

Peace

[Mbilica]

Originally Posted by SheRef

I'm curious to know what State this is? "basketball officials in our state is not at all an issue."

In Connecticut, we have a shortage.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

[RefCT]

Originally Posted by Mbilica

In Connecticut, we have a shortage.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

I guess it depends on where you are. Being on Bd 8 or Bd 35, you may be short. I would argue that there isn't much of a shortage where I am, until the conferences and schools decide to schedule all their games the same night. This is especially the case when there is a cancellation (i.e. snow) and all the schools want to rebook to the next night, which already has a full slate of games. Our commissioner tells schools he literally has nobody available to officiate their games, unless they want a one man crew on a varsity game. None of the coaches/ADs are for that and then they decide to be flexible.

During the good winters with minimal disruptions, there are very few "all hands on deck" days.

[JRutledge]

Here is the additional fact. We do not play girls and boys basketball games in the same place as the norm. Often just in the Chicago area and surrounding suburbs, they play a Freshman A & B games (two games) in one gym and a Sophomore (usually the prelim game) before the varsity. So it is not unusual to have 7 officials assigned to one site on any given night. Then you might have 8 different sites or games going on in a particular conference. So that is if everyone one in the conference is playing (16 team model) then that means you have 56 officials assigned on any given night for just one gender of basketball. There are times when there are emergency fill-ins or last minute coverages of games, but they almost always get someone to fill those games even the day of the game. The schools might not get the best of the best every night working, but they get officials that can competently cover the games. And not all conferences are 16 teams. Many are 12 or fewer and I rarely hear of this being a problem to get officials in basketball. Also that means that you might even get some younger officials working levels they would not have worked in the past, but the games get covered.

Peace

[deecee]

Originally Posted by rbruno

18 years if officiating basketball from HS varsity down to youth levels during the entire year. So I've seen all the crap we talk about from the parents, coaches and unfortunately the kids. I believe it has gotten much worse in the 18 years I have been doing this. My feeling is that youth associations, NFHS, or whatever governing body in charge has to start to set in motion a zero tolerance policy. Its about time this nonsense stops so the kids can start to have "fun" (sorry I used the F word) and the officials can just do their job and not have to "manage" anyone. It sounds impossible but I wonder what would happen after a year of no tolerance. Kick out the parents, don't allow any coach antics ( I mean none), and teach the kids that they have to just shut up and play. The nonsense behavior from all around has become the norm not the exception. This clearly needs to be reversed. I know I always comment to my partner when we do a game where players play, coaches coach, and parents clap and cheer.... Good game "just like its supposed to be."

That's up to you (and other refs) to manage. Most don't IMO. I do. I also have more coaches not like me because I don't like to deal with garbage. Way toooooo many officials let to much slide that coaches know it's easier to just request me off a game because they have a 75%+ chance of getting guys that will let them and their players act like fools.

When refs complain about a coaches or players behavior and I ask them what they did about it. If they say they did nothing I ask them to stop complaining to me. If they said they did something but the behavior didn't change I then ask them then why did you change your adjudication if you ALREADY drew a line. If they say nothing then I ask them to stop complaining to me. If they did take care of business then I can usually relate because it's the same offenders year in/year out that as officials we just roll our eyes because in part working those games aren't exactly fun sometimes.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by deecee

That's up to you (and other refs) to manage. Most don't IMO. I do. I also have more coaches not like me because I don't like to deal with garbage. Way toooooo many officials let to much slide that coaches know it's easier to just request me off a game because they have a 75%+ chance of getting guys that will let them and their players act like fools.

When refs complain about a coaches or players behavior and I ask them what they did about it. If they say they did nothing I ask them to stop complaining to me. If they said they did something but the behavior didn't change I then ask them then why did you change your adjudication if you ALREADY drew a line. If they say nothing then I ask them to stop complaining to me. If they did take care of business then I can usually relate because it's the same offenders year in/year out that as officials we just roll our eyes because in part working those games aren't exactly fun sometimes.

That sounds great, but we are not doing this in a bubble. We can give all the Ts in the world if we do not have support by our assignors or leagues or state than it only goes so far of what we can do personally.

I threw a kid out of a game earlier this year for basically trying to intimidate me directly and he was tossed. You would have thought that I had pulled a gun on the kid and was totally out of line based on the fall out after the incident. Well ironically, this very same kid was kicked out of his school for cursing out a teacher at the private school he attended. But if the adults would have not allowed certain behavior, what I did in a game would have never needed to take place. If I was a less accomplished official or someone with much less experience, I might have seriously contemplated getting out of this. But I have been here before and seen this before and was able to overcome the situation. But I did not feel I got support by those involved for not being treated like I was a kid.

I am a grown ass man and wish to be treated as such. I am also not going around treating other adults like they are not adults. But I refuse to treat kids like they are adults when I was not raised that way or act like if they act up I cannot do something about their behavior. But many in power allow that kind of situation to continue even if we use the main tools we have within the game. So I am going to disagree that we cannot complain about it when we are not supported. Because if you give a T then they try to make it about you as the official, not the behavior that caused the reaction.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by RefCT

I guess it depends on where you are.

In my little corner of Connecticut: 300 officials, 75 high schools, both genders (with very few exceptions), varsity, junior varsity, freshman, almost all two man crews; coaches, athletic directors, and principals don't like officials working doubleheaders if one of those games is a varsity game, unless absolutely necessary, many middle school programs (both genders). Boys and girls play on different nights, or at different sites (i.e. boys home, girls away, no such thing as a boys/girls doubleheader). Middle school, and freshman, games scheduled in the late afternoon (3:30 p.m., 4:00 p.m.), junior varsity (5:30 p.m.) and varsity (7:00 p.m.) at night. Not many Saturdays (except freshman games, and prep high school games), no Sundays. Very few schools with auxiliary gymnasiums that can seat fans.

We have a few dozen guys that don't work high school games (they just want the "patch" so that they can work their local town recreation, and travel games).

A few guys get hurt, a few guys get the flu, and it's tough to cover busy Fridays. Get a few games snowed out, and it get tough to have enough officials to cover the makeup nights.

Our new class has had about thirty officials the past few years, but that same number leaves for whatever reason (not moving up fast enough), or retires.

We've restructured out rating system so that deserving officials can move up quicker (no minimum years experience to move up, all one needs is talent). We may also start conducting exit interviews to see if we can make policy changes to keep officials from prematurely leaving.

[SC Official]

So funny how things are different regionally. In GA, SC, and NC, there are no "girls officials" or "boys officials." You work both genders or you don't work, and 99% of assignments are doubleheaders. In SC there's never really been pushback from coaches or ADs because it's just the way it's always been, and quite frankly always will be. Most of the complainers are officials themselves, but the reality is 95% of varsity games are on Tuesday and Friday nights, and sending two crews a night would cause officials to lose a significant amount of money over the course of the season (no school wants to play girls and boys on separate nights). We don't really have a shortage of varsity officials (whether competent or not is entirely different) that I know of in SC, but that would change if we ever sent separate crews for girls/boys.

I can't emphasize how glad I am that I don't have to worry about what coaches think about me with respect to the assignments I get.

[Mark Padgett]

The official in the middle represents a referee shortage.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by SC Official

So funny how things are different regionally. In GA, SC, and NC, there are no "girls officials" or "boys officials." You work both genders or you don't work, and 99% of assignments are doubleheaders. In SC there's never really been pushback from coaches or ADs because it's just the way it's always been, and quite frankly always will be. Most of the complainers are officials themselves, but the reality is 95% of varsity games are on Tuesday and Friday nights, and sending two crews a night would cause officials to lose a significant amount of money over the course of the season (no school wants to play girls and boys on separate nights). We don't really have a shortage of varsity officials (whether competent or not is entirely different) that I know of in SC, but that would change if we ever sent separate crews for girls/boys.

I can't emphasize how glad I am that I don't have to worry about what coaches think about me with respect to the assignments I get.

I equate our system to what happens in college. You would ever see a women's official work a men's game. The games are different and what is considered a foul on one is not close to a foul in another on similar type of plays.

Then again I work boys basketball too, so there is no need to get a coach to respect the assignment I get as that is all I work. Boys is the side that is covered extensively by the media. And if I had to do two games in a night, I can tell you the effort would be limited just because doing two games are harder than doing one. I do not get that model, but if it works for those in other states more power to you guys. The same reason we are not asked in this part of the state to work a prelim game and a varsity game in the same night. Players do not play two games in a night typically, not sure why it is an idea that officials should be expected to do the same. Yes it can be done, but are you getting the same effort in both games? I know how I feel doing multiple games during the summer for running clock games. I can imagine how that would be if that was my entire schedule. Every now and then OK, but not every assignment. Maybe that is part of the reason lots of areas have a shortage. IJS.

Peace