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Old Wed Apr 05, 2017, 02:08pm
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Originally Posted by bucky View Post
That is what I was thinking about your line of questioning, that you are trying to make some distinction. Not sure where you are going with it.

Anyway...

Yes, there is a distinction imo. I grab is a conscious closing of the hand around something, like a wrist, jersey, etc. It can't be accidental. Are all holds grabs? No. Are all grabs hold? Yes. Some holds are too difficult to consider intentional. If someone grabs a jersey though, then it seems obvious, not only what they were doing, but also there intent. Looks as if it comes down to semantics again. Shocker.

Just my opinion.
Jerseys get grabbed accidentally all the time: more often than intentionally, IMO.

Defender reaches for the ball, trying to grab it, and misses. Whether he hits a jersey or a wrist, the natural instinct of the fingers is to grab. This is not an intentional act.

Many jersey grabs are certainly intentional: but not all. I'd say not even most.
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Old Wed Apr 05, 2017, 02:13pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Jerseys get grabbed accidentally all the time: more often than intentionally, IMO.

Defender reaches for the ball, trying to grab it, and misses. Whether he hits a jersey or a wrist, the natural instinct of the fingers is to grab. This is not an intentional act.

Many jersey grabs are certainly intentional: but not all. I'd say not even most.
I guess it depends on your definition. As i said above, i think most fouls are done purposely. Cited some examples. If you are going by me i might stick an arm out, if i then grab your jersey i think im doing it in desperation. I dont think its an accident. We dont call it an intentional foul all the time but i disagree that jersey grabs are more accidental than on purpose. Does a kid have a brain cramp and do it... yes. It's not intentional in basketball but i think it is under dictionary defintion.
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Old Wed Apr 05, 2017, 02:15pm
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Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
I guess it depends on your definition. As i said above, i think most fouls are done purposely. Cited some examples. If you are going by me i might stick an arm out, if i then grab your jersey i think im doing it in desperation. I dont think its an accident. We dont call it an intentional foul all the time but i disagree that jersey grabs are more accidental than on purpose.
I don't think most fouls are done on purpose, I think they're done out of intentional negligence at most. I try to steal the ball or block a shot but know full well I may foul you in the process.
I reach out to slap the ball and hit your arm instead.

Arm bars and hand checks are different, but even then they tend to be instinctual (bad habits and poor coaching) rather than intentional.

I see your point, though, and think I'm picking nits.

Maybe we should call them "premeditated fouls" instead.
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Old Wed Apr 05, 2017, 02:26pm
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
I don't think most fouls are done on purpose, I think they're done out of intentional negligence at most. I try to steal the ball or block a shot but know full well I may foul you in the process.
I reach out to slap the ball and hit your arm instead.

Arm bars and hand checks are different, but even then they tend to be instinctual (bad habits and poor coaching) rather than intentional.

I see your point, though, and think I'm picking nits.

Maybe we should call them "premeditated fouls" instead.
Lets just call it pornography...we know intentional when we see it. Just because A1 meant to whack B1 on the arm doesnt make it intentional. There is more than "intent" to be considered when calling intentional foul....". I have mentioned im a rocket scientist...yes?
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