NCAA Tournament (Elite 8 Games) Video Requests - Saturday and Sunday

[just another ref]

Another way to look at it: A pass cannot be a violation. If a player throws what starts out to be a pass, then goes and gets it himself, it can become a dribble, which may or may not be a violation, depending on whether his dribble is gone.

If a player has used his dribble, then forgets and pushes it to the floor in an apparent start to another dribble, it is a violation when it hits the floor. If he remembers and runs away from it at this point, it's still a violation.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If a player has used his dribble, then forgets and pushes it to the floor in an apparent start to another dribble, it is a violation when it hits the floor.

Can't believe I read that. Completely false and no official in the world would call a violation when the ball hit the floor and the player did not touch it again.

Imagine, A1 holds the ball after dribbling, then makes a bounce pass to A2. You are calling a violation when the ball hits the floor? I don't think so.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bucky

Can't believe I read that. Completely false and no official in the world would call a violation when the ball hit the floor and the player did not touch it again.

Imagine, A1 holds the ball after dribbling, then makes a bounce pass to A2. You are a violation when the ball hits the floor? I don't think.

A1 has used his dribble. He is guarded by B1. He give a head fake, puts the ball on the floor and breaks toward the basket. Ball hits the floor and is slapped out of bounds by B1.

What is your call?

[bucky]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A1 has used his dribble. He is guarded by B1. He give a head fake, puts the ball on the floor and breaks toward the basket. Ball hits the floor and is slapped out of bounds by B1.

What is your call?

According to most who have responded on this topic, they would call a traveling violation at the "puts" action. I, on the other hand, would call an OOB violation on B1. Speaking for all officials, they would do the same too, lol. One can't avoid reality.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bucky

According to most who have responded on this topic, they would call a traveling violation at the "puts" action. I, on the other hand, would call an OOB violation on B1. Speaking for all officials, they would do the same too, lol. One can't avoid reality.

There is nothing here which would suggest a travel call.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bucky

According to most who have responded on this topic, they would call a traveling violation at the "puts" action. I, on the other hand, would call an OOB violation on B1. Speaking for all officials, they would do the same too, lol. One can't avoid reality.

Personally, I'd call an illegal dribble. The dribble began when the ball was released. If that were not true, a player who wanted to start a dribble and move would have to keep his/her pivot foot down until the ball came back to his/her hand.

The dribble begins by pushing, throwing or batting the ball to the floor before the pivot foot is lifted.

When B1 touched that ball the dribble would have ended were it not for the illegal dribble that already made the ball dead.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by bucky

According to most who have responded on this topic, they would call a traveling violation at the "puts" action. I, on the other hand, would call an OOB violation on B1. Speaking for all officials, they would do the same too, lol. One can't avoid reality.

You are 100% wrong. If it looks like the start of a dribble I call the violation as soon as the action begins. That's my expectation at HS and college, and any official who know what they are doing will call the violation. So thanks, but you don't speak for me.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Another way to look at it: A pass cannot be a violation. If a player throws what starts out to be a pass, then goes and gets it himself, it can become a dribble, which may or may not be a violation, depending on whether his dribble is gone.

If a player has used his dribble, then forgets and pushes it to the floor in an apparent start to another dribble, it is a violation when it hits the floor. If he remembers and runs away from it at this point, it's still a violation.

Originally Posted by bucky

Can't believe I read that. Completely false and no official in the world would call a violation when the ball hit the floor and the player did not touch it again.

Imagine, A1 holds the ball after dribbling, then makes a bounce pass to A2. You are a violation when the ball hits the floor? I don't think.

You might want to avoid speaking for all officials for a while.

Whether you believe it or not: that's the rule and yes, quite a few high quality officials would certainly call it that way in limited circumstances. Normally, by the time we blow our whistle, the ball has already come up and touched the dribbler. The whole point here is that it's not required.

Before making that call, I'd have to be absolutely positive of the intent: any doubt at all and it's a pass until it comes back to touch the same player.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

You might want to avoid speaking for all officials for a while.

Ain't that the truth.

Peace

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by bucky

Can't believe I read that. Completely false and no official in the world would call a violation when the ball hit the floor and the player did not touch it again.

Imagine, A1 holds the ball after dribbling, then makes a bounce pass to A2. You are a violation when the ball hits the floor? I don't think.

If the player ends a dribble, forgets and then the next thing he does is push the ball down to the floor like a dribble we've all seen millions of times...then I can and have called it a violation before he touches it again. If the player does something with it that doesn't look like a dribble I've seen a million times(your bounce pass example) I will wait to see what happens. This is what just another is saying and it is correct.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by bucky

Imagine, A1 holds the ball after dribbling, then makes a bounce pass to A2. You are calling a violation when the ball hits the floor? I don't think so.

At some point we have to make a judgement. We all know what a pass looks like and a dribble looks like. When the ball is released and pushed to the floor it is a violation. A pass and a start of the dribble are two very different things.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by OKREF

At some point we have to make a judgment. We all know what a pass looks like and a dribble looks like ... A pass and a start of the dribble are two very different things.

By definition, you are 100% correct. But sometimes, the start of a real ugly bounce pass and a the start of real ugly dribble can look very similar.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

By definition, you are 100% correct. But sometimes, the start of a real ugly bounce pass and a the start of real ugly dribble can look very similar.

Yes, they can. I only advocate calling it on the release when it is clear...and most of the time it is.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

By definition, you are 100% correct. But sometimes, the start of a real ugly bounce pass and a the start of real ugly dribble can look very similar.

That's rare. Even more rare when you consider it doesn't matter unless the player has already used and ended the dribble.

[bucky]

I'm with y'all.

I was watching the UCONN/MISS women's game on ESPN. With 6:44 left in the 1st quarter, a MISS dribbler performed a dribble that turned out to be a pass. Not necessarily my words but the ones I am using to describe it. Anyway, if Jrut or anyone else could get it, I would be interested to hear what you would say regarding it. Now, the dribbler was always dribbling but... I want you to pretend that she did not have her dribble, rather that she picked it up and then performed the last dribble/pass that was taken by her teammate. Sorry, hard to describe and it is a bit silly to have you "pretend" but I found it very interesting as it is a play that I have seen many times in real life and I would never dream of calling a violation (illegal dribble). Several of you have indicated that you would call a violation. Some have indicated that what happens next determines your call and even some have cited ugly passes/dribbles. All had good points. So, back to the play. IF the dribbler gathered the ball(picked up her dribble) and performed her last act with the ball, who here would call a violation?

(and if Jrut or anyone else can't get the video, obviously forget all this and accept my apologies for wasting anyone's time)