Coaches who are also Officials

[ChuckS]

It was during pre-game observations. I was at the division line, partner had gone to the table. The coach approached me - nobody else present.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by OrStBballRef

Was doing a VB game this year and home team coach does officiate some on the weekend (kids/travel/high school rec stuff)...

1Q my first whistle of the game was on a drive originating from the C....I'm the lead see the contact, give partner first crack and then I put a whistle on it. It was late, probably later than it should have been, but it was the right call.

I go over the report and coach isn't pleased. I admit it was late, but it was the right call. Coach then proceeds to explain "I ref and the rule book says you don't call a foul that late."

I'm of the school that if you officiate, especially at a high level, you should know better than bark and chirp at an official as it can be a difficult game to call. However, thinking a coaches mindset will change because they officiate sometimes doesn't change the end result of their behavior....

No such thing as a late call. Notice he didn't argue the correctness of the call.. Next!

[OrStBballRef]

Originally Posted by Rich

No such thing as a late call. Notice he didn't argue the correctness of the call.. Next!

Nope he didn't...sometimes I'll throw out a 'That ### rule must be in rule 11 right coach?" just to see if they really have read the rule book as much as they profess to do

[jpgc99]

In a setting like you've described, I typically have a shorter rope when the coach makes a point to tell me that he is an official or used to be an official.

If he's an official, he should already understand how to respectfully approach me to ask a question.

I'm not giving him any benefit of the doubt when there is poor behavior. Because he should already know what is coming.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

Just wondering if my experience with coaches who are also officials is typical.

Just finished my 2nd year. In my 2nd Varsity game, one head coach had been my partner for 4 MS travel games. Before the game he told me that his girls are aggressive, and when they drive the lane and there is contact, he wants the foul called. First half he got into a long discussion about a block/charge call with my partner, which prompted my partner to tell me at halftime that he couldn’t believe the coach was also an official. Close game at halftime, his team gets blown out in the 2nd half. Winning team passing the ball along the perimeter, killing the clock, (4 minutes to go, 30 point margin) and the coach yells at me for missing a travel. I admit sometimes I struggle with identifying the pivot foot, I am certainly working on it. (after game partner said it was close, but a travel). After the game, coach finds us in the hall, and begins yelling at me that I am a JV official, that I missed 4 travels, and he is going to send the video to the assignor. I did not engage him. Both my partner and the AD try to calm the coach down. That night I emailed a full explanation to my assignor.

2 weeks later, I went to watch his team in their first round State playoff game. Same type of game, tied at halftime, his team loses by 28. Three-man crew, all experienced guys. He was complaining all game. During a 3rd quarter time-out, he told his team “Don’t worry girls, it’s 8 against 5 out there”. With about 4 minutes to go, he gets in an official’s face and screams “You’re Horrible!”, twice. That earned him a T. Saddest part was his team clapping for him as he returned to the bench.

Then last week I did a 6th grade girls travel game – one coach was a partner from 2 months ago. I was L, in good position to see no contact on a missed lay-up. Shooter goes down hard – not injured, but stays down for a while. Coach screaming for a foul (from 50 feet away) “If my player is on the floor, there HAS to be a foul”. (As an official, how can she possibly think that?) Girls that age are on the floor all the time, of their own doing.

So….typical, or atypical?

While officiating independent basketball (travel ball) I have had a few negative interactions with NFHS certified officials who were coaching their kid's team. The level of competition ranged from middle school to varsity. In each instance it only happened once and ended when I had enough from them and reminded them that they are certified officials and should act like it. The next time we shared the floor they were polite and treated me with respect. I would say they were below average officials. Of course this was independent basketball and it is easy for people to lose their minds here so maybe they would have acted differently at a sanctioned game.

The only time I officiated a sanctioned high school game were a coach was a NFHS certified official was a great game. They guy was a great official and it his coaching skills, regarding interaction with us, reflected that.

So based off of my limited personal experience, I think good officials will be good coaches, regarding interaction with the game officials. Bad (relative term) officials can be a pain and would not think twice about what they thought of me or my level of officiating.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

It was during pre-game observations. I was at the division line, partner had gone to the table. The coach approached me - nobody else present.

Don't let that happen in the future.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OrStBballRef

Was doing a VB game this year and home team coach does officiate some on the weekend (kids/travel/high school rec stuff)...

1Q my first whistle of the game was on a drive originating from the C....I'm the lead see the contact, give partner first crack and then I put a whistle on it. It was late, probably later than it should have been, but it was the right call.

I go over the report and coach isn't pleased. I admit it was late, but it was the right call. Coach then proceeds to explain "I ref and the rule book says you don't call a foul that late."

I'm of the school that if you officiate, especially at a high level, you should know better than bark and chirp at an official as it can be a difficult game to call. However, thinking a coaches mindset will change because they officiate sometimes doesn't change the end result of their behavior....

What I'd want to say, "Coach, you throw a garbage rule like that at me again and I'll call a technical foul."

What I'd actually do is ignore him and tune him out. If he gets my attention again, it had better be for a timeout.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

It was during pre-game observations. I was at the division line, partner had gone to the table. The coach approached me - nobody else present.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Don't let that happen in the future.

The Texan is right. As soon as he starts talking about how his players play, stop him and start walking towards the other coach. "Coach, any conversation we have is going to involve both of you, let's go get their coach and we can talk."

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by OrStBballRef

Nope he didn't...sometimes I'll throw out a 'That ### rule must be in rule 11 right coach?" just to see if they really have read the rule book as much as they profess to do

When I get persistent chirping about a rule, I flat out tell the coach that I know the rule book better than he does.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Adam

The Texan is right.

Yeehaw!

[ChuckS]

Originally Posted by Adam

The Texan is right. As soon as he starts talking about how his players play, stop him and start walking towards the other coach. "Coach, any conversation we have is going to involve both of you, let's go get their coach and we can talk."

You guys read my mind! I was going to ask what is the best way to prevent it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by ChuckS

You guys read my mind! I was going to ask what is the best way to prevent it.

It does two things. First, it prevents him from telling you how to call a game like this. He won't say that around the other coach.

Second, it prevents any appearance of you being too friendly with one coach over the other.

[justacoach]

Most unbelievable exhibition of multiple ref-as-a-coach insanity occurred in a travel tournament locally.

One of the groups involved had several teams with dads as coaches. Dad's officiating resumes ranged from NBA finals to high level D1 down to D3.

Each of them let their respective pedigrees be known at some point during games.

I can understand the emotional aspect of coaching your own offspring combined with less than stellar officiating found in travel ball. I have often been in that exact same position.

What I can't countenance is the utter lack of respect, to the point of verbally abuse and hectoring and even profanity directed at youthful officials by these supposed paragons of officiating.

One of the worst displays was during the first 12U girls game, a coach walked onto the court during live play to yell about fouls and grabbed the shoulder of my teen-aged son.

Instinctively my son wheeled around, sounded his whistle and served up a T.

The coach returned to his bench and quietly remarked to me "Your young ref just banged an NBA Finals official"

Now, I want to say I have had coaches try to sell some bodacious wolf tickets but this one took the cake.

Other coaches from his group confirmed he was who he claimed, to my utter surprise. I grabbed my smartphone and found a name that fit the face.

Said coach had the good grace to compliment and apologize to the officials after the game.
We spent the rest of the afternoon discussing the disconnects between FED and NBA rulesets.

I told my #3 son this was a story to regale his grandkids with...sort of like Barney Fife giving a speeding ticket to a Supreme Court judge.

As a whole, every coach in that organization was influenced by the poor example set by their leading lights.

My association made a point to boycott any future tournaments involving this tribe of disrespectful howler monkeys.

Since then I have a very short leash with any coach who mentions his coaching credentials.

Now, whenever my #1 son, who bears a sharp resemblance to his younger brother, runs into NBA finals ref, they share a good laugh with their group.

Wasn't so funny when it actually happened.

[Nevadaref]

1. He grabbed a teenager?!?!? Should have been ejected from the venue immediately.

2. I'm guessing that you meant to write "officiating credentials."

[Raymond]

Ole Scott Foster is a Legend up and down Virginia.

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