Purdue - IU Blarge

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Adam

The fact that every time we see this happen in a college game they go with a DF should tell you most of what you need to know.

That the college system is flawed?

[RefCT]

Originally Posted by just another ref

That the college system is flawed?

Out of curiosity, how would you explain it to a coach in a close game that knows the rule and just had his best ball handler (or shooter or big man) foul out, while the other team's player doesn't? Let's say they both had 4 fouls.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by RefCT

Out of curiosity, how would you explain it to a coach in a close game that knows the rule and just had his best ball handler (or shooter or big man) foul out, while the other team's player doesn't? Let's say they both had 4 fouls.

Not sure an explanation is necessary, but if you feel that it is, in this case the explanation is clearly that: "My partner had a better look at it, coach."

[asdf]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Not sure an explanation is necessary, but if you feel that it is, in this case the explanation is clearly that: "My partner had a better look at it, coach."

and when the coach says....

"But by rule this is a double foul" .....


your response is ??

[BigT]

Originally Posted by asdf

and when the coach says....

"But by rule this is a double foul" .....


your response is ??

We want to screw one of you.. could you give us 5 minutes to decide who was a dumnut and we will get back to you...

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by asdf

and when the coach says....

"But by rule this is a double foul" .....


your response is ??

Are we talking NFHS? "No, it isn't."

[RefCT]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Are we talking NFHS? "No, it isn't."

Are you trolling us or being serious?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by RefCT

Are you trolling us or being serious?

Absolutely serious. We have debated this multiple times over the years. Yes, the famous case play tells us how to proceed when this call is made. But the question is when this is necessary. The case says one official "rules" one thing and the other the opposite. Nothing says that either official cannot change his "ruling" at any point before it is reported. Nothing about signals in the case play, preliminary or otherwise. I was advised to take my argument to a higher power, so I did. Sent an email to the editor of the NFHS books and she agreed with me, along with my assignor and the supervisor of officials in my state.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Not sure an explanation is necessary, but if you feel that it is, in this case the explanation is clearly that: "My partner had a better look at it, coach."

Serious answer:

I would likely get myself ejected and then do everything I could after the fact to get you fired.

For everyone else, you may just as well ignore JAR on this topic. He's been on his island for a while on this and he's not climbing into a lifeboat anytime soon.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Not sure an explanation is necessary, but if you feel that it is, in this case the explanation is clearly that: "My partner had a better look at it, coach."

And the coach that has been on the "better look" official all game as having it out for them, that is going to go over well. At least the "blarge" is now preventable as it is rare that anyone has these in the first place. But now in this situation you pick one and we know how well coaches just accept our positions on everything we call.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

That the college system is flawed?

Well that is a different issue, but they want a double foul on this and the rules support this. There was a video early in the year (Kansas vs. Indiana) where a blarge happen and the NCAA Supervisor said that this was to be a double foul by rule. So it appears no one agrees with you on this that matters.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well that is a different issue, but they want a double foul on this and the rules support this. There was a video early in the year (Kansas vs. Indiana) where a blarge happen and the NCAA Supervisor said that this was to be a double foul by rule. So it appears no one agrees with you on this that matters.

Peace

And if everybody in the NCAA is on the same page, that's fine. But the play in this thread is a perfect example of why the system is flawed. Two officials made two calls. One is right, the other is wrong, so the logical thing to do is.......... REPORT BOTH OF THEM??

Why?

Originally Posted by just another ref

And if everybody in the NCAA is on the same page, that's fine. But the play in this thread is a perfect example of why the system is flawed. Two officials made two calls. One is right, the other is wrong, so the logical thing to do is.......... REPORT BOTH OF THEM??

Why?

Ask the committee of coaches and administrators who write the rules!!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

And if everybody in the NCAA is on the same page, that's fine. But the play in this thread is a perfect example of why the system is flawed. Two officials made two calls. One is right, the other is wrong, so the logical thing to do is.......... REPORT BOTH OF THEM??

Why?

Is the system flawed or is the official's mechanics flawed? The system as that this is the call of the Lead Official. So the Center should not even be expecting to signal on this play. Now we can question the judgment on this particular play with the official in the lead, but this is his call by mechanic. That is more of a hard fast "rule" in the NCAA level than it is in the NF or high school level mechanics. Because if you pick one, then the debate will be over who was actually right that should have reported the foul. So you cannot win either way. The bottom line is the Center should have held up but he was so eager to make a call, he helped cause this situation. He was also the person the furthest away from the call, so he should have been very judicious in making this call in the first place.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Is the system flawed or is the official's mechanics flawed?

In this case, both.

Because if you pick one, then the debate will be over who was actually right that should have reported the foul.

No more than the debate over whether any other close call was right or wrong.

So you cannot win either way.

If you get the call right, you win.