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-   -   Block charge and aftermath (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/102210-block-charge-aftermath.html)

CJP Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:43pm

I think these guys screwed this up, big time. Got the block/charge wrong and then made an error by awarding 2 points. Even if it was a block, the basket shouldn't have counted.

VaTerp Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by CJP (Post 999316)
I think these guys screwed this up, big time. Got the block/charge wrong and then made an error by awarding 2 points. Even if it was a block, the basket shouldn't have counted.

I think its a very poor sequence for this crew.

Would love to have seen the coach's reaction.

frezer11 Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:37pm

Well I might get torn apart for it, but I'll go to bat for the lead just a little bit here. While I do still think it was a charge after several viewings, I also think it would be interesting to see an endline angle, which obviously is unavailable. Just before contact, W11 runs directly between the players and the camera angle, and just as he gets out of the way, the contact is occurring, and the kid who took the "charge" has his right leg at a weird angle outside of his frame, whereas it didn't look like that before the view is interrupted. This could imply that he was, in fact, sliding to his left at the time of impact. (Although I do acknowledge that his could be part of him bracing for contact as well, as I said, I'd love to have an unobstructed angle of the full play)

I realize I'm analyzing this too far, and as I said, I still think it was a charge, but the more I've watched it, the less certain I think I am-

ronny mulkey Sun Feb 05, 2017 02:22pm

Good crew
 
Saw a lot of the video before becoming aware of Rut's condensed version. This was a very good crew and well officiated game. It wouldn't surprise me if all of them have some college assignments. Don't these college have guidelines directing them to go "block" on close iffy plays. Around here, we all follow Women's college mechanics and philosophies. And, this year at camp, even the Women clinicians were advocating a "block" on 50-50 plays. I guess they need more scoring???

I don't think the L was surprised by the play and could have seen some sideways movement. I have no idea how they could move to CM but as someone pointed out, these guys did not get to look at video.

BigCat Sun Feb 05, 2017 02:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 999294)
Alternative facts?

I tend to error on side of calling charge. Hard to get kids to take one. Having said that, offense is airborne and looks to me that defender is leaning left into his path. Falls toward block. I'm not able to say this is an obvious charge from our angle.

I do agree based on video that the basket should not count if block is call. In real time I'd understand if it was missed. Happens quick.

JRutledge Sun Feb 05, 2017 05:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey (Post 999337)
Don't these college have guidelines directing them to go "block" on close iffy plays.

No. At least not on the Men's side. They want you to call a charge if you have a charge by rule. What Women's side does is a mystery to me, but as a high school official it is clear that they mirror more the Men's philosophies or positions on everything from positioning and rotation philosophies.

Peace

Sharpshooternes Mon Feb 06, 2017 03:24am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey (Post 999337)
Saw a lot of the video before becoming aware of Rut's condensed version. This was a very good crew and well officiated game. It wouldn't surprise me if all of them have some college assignments. Don't these college have guidelines directing them to go "block" on close iffy plays. Around here, we all follow Women's college mechanics and philosophies. And, this year at camp, even the Women clinicians were advocating a "block" on 50-50 plays. I guess they need more scoring???

I don't think the L was surprised by the play and could have seen some sideways movement. I have no idea how they could move to CM but as someone pointed out, these guys did not get to look at video.

It is a pretty good crew. Pretty sure one does D1, certain one does JC, not sure about the third. It was a well done game.

ronny mulkey Mon Feb 06, 2017 05:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 999353)
No. At least not on the Men's side. They want you to call a charge if you have a charge by rule. What Women's side does is a mystery to me, but as a high school official it is clear that they mirror more the Men's philosophies or positions on everything from positioning and rotation philosophies.

Peace

Women's take a lot of their lead from the WNBA regarding training/philosophies.

bossman72 Mon Feb 06, 2017 09:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeyes (Post 999307)
Is there still be a belief by some officials that the defender has to "take the contact" in order to have a charge?
We must rid the earth of such thinking!

Explain for the casual observer, please!

bob jenkins Mon Feb 06, 2017 09:18am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossman72 (Post 999386)
Explain for the casual observer, please!

Some would say:

"If the defender is moving backwards, it's not a charge."

"If the defender doesn't get run over, it's not a charge."

"The offense must go 'to and through' the defender to be a charge."

"If the offense alters the path slightly so the contact is shoulder-to-shoulder and not torso-to-torso, it's not a charge."

SD Referee Mon Feb 06, 2017 09:32am

Quote:

Originally Posted by so cal lurker (Post 999312)
Pause at first contact: ball is still in air toward the shooter. (And yes, I realize they don't get to do that and it's a really tough call to make live.)

The easy, and CORRECT call, is to wave off the basket. What we really have here is a team control foul and the basket should not have counted as the contact occurred before the shooter is even going up. To count this basket is terrible officiating.

Unless he clearly got the shot off before the contact, this is an easy basket to wave off.

HokiePaul Mon Feb 06, 2017 09:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by frezer11 (Post 999334)
Well I might get torn apart for it, but I'll go to bat for the lead just a little bit here. While I do still think it was a charge after several viewings, I also think it would be interesting to see an endline angle, which obviously is unavailable. Just before contact, W11 runs directly between the players and the camera angle, and just as he gets out of the way, the contact is occurring, and the kid who took the "charge" has his right leg at a weird angle outside of his frame, whereas it didn't look like that before the view is interrupted. This could imply that he was, in fact, sliding to his left at the time of impact. (Although I do acknowledge that his could be part of him bracing for contact as well, as I said, I'd love to have an unobstructed angle of the full play)

I realize I'm analyzing this too far, and as I said, I still think it was a charge, but the more I've watched it, the less certain I think I am-

I agree with you. I have a charge from our angle, but it's possible that the defender's leg may be extended outside his vertical frame. I'm not going to say that the video is 100% conclusive.

JRutledge Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey (Post 999382)
Women's take a lot of their lead from the WNBA regarding training/philosophies.

I know and one of the reasons I have less respect for their decisions.

Peace

Raymond Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey (Post 999382)
Women's take a lot of their lead from the WNBA regarding training/philosophies.

I was under the impression that the WNBA, NBA, and D-League all operate under the same training philosophies.

stripes Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronny mulkey (Post 999337)
Saw a lot of the video before becoming aware of Rut's condensed version. This was a very good crew and well officiated game. It wouldn't surprise me if all of them have some college assignments.

I know 2 of the 3 officials very well...both are excellent playcallers. I think the L missed the play, but I think this is a tough play live. 2 bang/bang occurrences.

I have been texting the crew chief and they felt like shooting motion had started when l blew his whistle...They didn't have video to review. He has looked at the video and would change things. He also told me that they are going to review this play at their next chapter meeting.


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