Duke @ Notre Dame Plays (Video)

Originally Posted by Rich

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LATE WHISTLE!

My God, I can't BELIEVE there are officials saying this. I expect it from clueless coaches, but not from officials who, supposedly, know better.

There is absolutely such a thing as a late whistle, in relation to whistle timing. If an official wants to call this handcheck play at the elbow he needs to be much quicker with his whistle timing. Remember, quick above the FT line and slow and patient below because we have plays to the basket (such as this one).

This player already has a full head of steam and is well in motion to the basket by the time he gets to the FT line, thus the official should be patient and either no call the made layup or come in with an and-1.

Additionally, given the time and score the official should absolutely have a later whistle cadence to be awarding shots on this play. Don't look for reasons to not award Free Throws.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by AremRed

There is absolutely such a thing as a late whistle, in relation to whistle timing. If an official wants to call this handcheck play at the elbow he needs to be much quicker with his whistle timing. Remember, quick above the FT line and slow and patient below because we have plays to the basket (such as this one).

This player already has a full head of steam and is well in motion to the basket by the time he gets to the FT line, thus the official should be patient and either no call the made layup or come in with an and-1.

Additionally, given the time and score the official should absolutely have a later whistle cadence to be awarding shots on this play. Don't look for reasons to not award Free Throws.

On the flip side, don't look for reasons to award free throws either. Call it the way you see it. Eliminate any judgement when you can. If you are looking for reasons to do things then you are using too much judgement.

[Bob Bball]

Wow, you guys go to extremes. "The Knicks" That is a blast from the past!

The right call, at the right time, for the right reason! Adds to the game and officials who can do this are very valuable and work the the important games.

Officials who apply all the rules only by the book stay home on Saturday night.

Knowing and applying the rules to fit the game, is where the Art of Officiating begins.

Blowing the whistle because the book says so, shows you can read, it does not show you have the skill or talent to be an artist(official).

Was the call right by the book? Certainly.
Was it at the right time - player driving below the foul line going to shoot, NO it was not.
Was it for the right reason? By the book sure, in any comman sense why in what players were doing, NO.

I just happen to think there is value in applying the rules to fit the game. some of you think the value is in the rules, not there application and that is OK.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by Bob Bball

Wow, you guys go to extremes. "The Knicks" That is a blast from the past!

The right call, at the right time, for the right reason! Adds to the game and officials who can do this are very valuable and work the the important games.

Officials who apply all the rules only by the book stay home on Saturday night.

Knowing and applying the rules to fit the game, is where the Art of Officiating begins.

Blowing the whistle because the book says so, shows you can read, it does not show you have the skill or talent to be an artist(official).

Was the call right by the book? Certainly.
Was it at the right time - player driving below the foul line going to shoot, NO it was not.
Was it for the right reason? By the book sure, in any comman sense why in what players were doing, NO.

I just happen to think there is value in applying the rules to fit the game. some of you think the value is in the rules, not there application and that is OK.

Like I said, eliminate judgement when you can. The best officials find balance between calling it by the book and adapting to the style of play. No doubt. Putting my personal belief of not awarding enough free throws and going looking for those types of fouls is not my style. The play we are debating is not even that bad; the T.V. commentator makes it worse than it really is. The biggest thing here is that a foul was called.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Bob Bball

Wow, you guys go to extremes. "The Knicks" That is a blast from the past!

The right call, at the right time, for the right reason! Adds to the game and officials who can do this are very valuable and work the the important games.

Officials who apply all the rules only by the book stay home on Saturday night.

Knowing and applying the rules to fit the game, is where the Art of Officiating begins.

Blowing the whistle because the book says so, shows you can read, it does not show you have the skill or talent to be an artist(official).

Was the call right by the book? Certainly.
Was it at the right time - player driving below the foul line going to shoot, NO it was not.
Was it for the right reason? By the book sure, in any comman sense why in what players were doing, NO.

I just happen to think there is value in applying the rules to fit the game. some of you think the value is in the rules, not there application and that is OK.

Oh, BS.

The powers that be have told the officials at the HS and college level to take the art out of certain calls. Two hands on the ball handler is one of those.

You can either do what you're told or not.

You gotta be an artist and a scientist.

[Bob Bball]

no not BS! watch games on Saturday and see if every situation is called by the book!

Do not always believe the powers to be! It may limit your ability to do the job!

Apply the rules fairly, consistently and in a fashion that fits the game.

Lighten up, the rules set out the guide lines and structure to the game. The interpretation and application of them make the game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Bob Bball

no not BS! watch games on Saturday and see if every situation is called by the book!

Do not always believe the powers to be! It may limit your ability to do the job!

Apply the rules fairly, consistently and in a fashion that fits the game.

Lighten up, the rules set out the guide lines and structure to the game. The interpretation and application of them make the game.

You obviously did not pay attention to what was said. No one said call it totally by the book. And you do not have to believe the powers that be, but the powers that be decide who works what in the post season. That often is who ultimately decides what we do. At that time it is JD Collins. And JD Collins is telling what should be done. And yes, they are calling the game differently since John Adams and now JD Collins are in power. The evidence is who gets post season and who does not. Many of the "old timers" that never got on board are no longer a factor for post season assignments.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by CJP

On the flip side, don't look for reasons to award free throws either. Call it the way you see it. Eliminate any judgement when you can. If you are looking for reasons to do things then you are using too much judgement.

Hmm. No way to eliminate judgment on these plays.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by Adam

Hmm. No way to eliminate judgment on these plays.

Sure there is. If you seen it before the shot then stick to that. Don't say to yourself "this guy needs to be awarded free throws". Just get the foul and move on.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by CJP

Sure there is. If you seen it before the shot then stick to that. Don't say to yourself "this guy needs to be awarded free throws". Just get the foul and move on.

You're talking about personal preference, not judgment. We use judgment to determine whether the contact is even a foul. Then we use judgment to decide if the shooting motion had begun. Then we use judgment to decide if it's an intentional foul.

You're using judgment all game long, every time there's any contact between opponents.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by Adam

You're talking about personal preference, not judgment. We use judgment to determine whether the contact is even a foul. Then we use judgment to decide if the shooting motion had begun. Then we use judgment to decide if it's an intentional foul.

You're using judgment all game long, every time there's any contact between opponents.

You have to use your judgement to make a decision regarding your preference. I don't disagree that we use our judgement every time we take the floor. The more we can eliminate judgement calls, the more constant we can be and the better we become. We have to find balance. To make a considered decision that anything close is automatically going to the free throw line is not good in my opinion.

[SNIPERBBB]

Hand checking has almost vanished here since the two-hand auto's started.