Recruiting

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by bossman72

AMEN!

I always say there's a "glass ceiling" for the newer officials that needs to be broken. You are 100% right that good young officials who don't get a chance will just quit. Why put in all this time and effort if they're just going to be put on these garbage games?

Ask yourself this: what is one of the major causes people leave their regular daytime jobs? No opportunity for advancement. Same applies to officiating.

*OK, so this is good conversation regarding Recruitment. Hey don't get me wrong, I do agree with the Maslow scale of vocational satisfaction but let us temper our remarks about so-called "garbage games"--because although viewed by veteran refs with disdain---those games mean as much to that 8th grade girl and her parents who took off work an hour early to go watch a 4 PM game---as it means for 12th grade girl who plays varsity and her family is coming to games.
I must say I do like your comparison to 'day job' and career satisfaction in terms of how this affects retention of officials.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

*OK, so this is good conversation regarding Recruitment. Hey don't get me wrong, I do agree with the Maslow scale of vocational satisfaction but let us temper our remarks about so-called "garbage games"--because although viewed by veteran refs with disdain---those games mean as much to that 8th grade girl and her parents who took off work an hour early to go watch a 4 PM game---as it means for 12th grade girl who plays varsity and her family is coming to games.
I must say I do like your comparison to 'day job' and career satisfaction in terms of how this affects retention of officials.

We all knew what he meant. This conversation is "inside the dressing room" so while your point is valid, the indignation was overkill IMHO.

I'm not one of those officials who feels like I'm above youth ball. That's ok if some feel this way, but for me I get a lot more enjoyment as a (marginal) veteran doing youth ball now that I have more confidence and a good feel for how to interact with coaches and sometimes even fans and parents. These games weren't as enjoyable when I was a rookie because of the poor skills involved and my rookie tendency to call everything I could. I didn't learn nearly as quickly as I did working frosh/JV basketball. Which is why I advocate a good mix of high school basketball in a promising young official's first few years.

[packersowner]

I've noticed two things about the millennials that I work with in trying to get them into officiating.

1 - The path to becoming an official has to be laid out for them. When I started, I made a few phone calls, called the state association, and figured out what I needed to do. The younger guys I have spoken with are very interested, but when I start explaining what they need to do, they generally respond with, "Seems like a lot of work and expense to get started, is there a website or something that tells me what I need to do?" It causes me to question whether we have provided some of the basic steps of how to get started on our own website.

2 - Our association is really good about getting newer officials the opportunity to work all levels of basketball in the first couple of years. However, after about 2 - 3 years, I see younger officials who get frustrated because they are not being given an opportunity to work those upper level games. Everyone officiates for different reasons and motivations. Some of our newer officials are trying to advance past what our association has to offer, some are looking for ways to meet new people, others just like being around the game. I think its helpful to understand this - millennials what to contribute right away and in an impactful way.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by packersowner

I've noticed two things about the millennials that I work with in trying to get them into officiating.

1 - The path to becoming an official has to be laid out for them. When I started, I made a few phone calls, called the state association, and figured out what I needed to do. The younger guys I have spoken with are very interested, but when I start explaining what they need to do, they generally respond with, "Seems like a lot of work and expense to get started, is there a website or something that tells me what I need to do?" It causes me to question whether we have provided some of the basic steps of how to get started on our own website.
....

I've known a few people who have given up on officiating b/c of the initial expense and lack of a clearly defined path into the avocation.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

*OK, so this is good conversation regarding Recruitment. Hey don't get me wrong, I do agree with the Maslow scale of vocational satisfaction but let us temper our remarks about so-called "garbage games"--because although viewed by veteran refs with disdain---those games mean as much to that 8th grade girl and her parents who took off work an hour early to go watch a 4 PM game---as it means for 12th grade girl who plays varsity and her family is coming to games.
I must say I do like your comparison to 'day job' and career satisfaction in terms of how this affects retention of officials.

Whether you call them garbage games or something else, there is a point where the caliber or level of the game is not worth stepping out your house or leaving work early.

Besides the pocket and vacation change it provides me, I ref for the challenge and sense of accomplishment. There are some younger men and women who get into officiating with goals in mind. If those goals are not being made available then they lose interest.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Whether you call them garbage games or something else, there is a point where the caliber or level of the game is not worth stepping out your house or leaving work early.

Besides the pocket and vacation change it provides me, I ref for the challenge and sense of accomplishment. There are some younger men and women who get into officiating with goals in mind. If those goals are not being made available then they lose interest.

Even if they don't have upward mobility goals and want to make money and stay involved in the game. For young competitive player who is now transitioning from their playing career to a potential officiating career, low level games are not the "game" they want to stay involved in. Making sure they get games that at least maintain interest and resemble the game as they currently understand it are important to rentention as well.

If they want to be upwardly mobile its important to recognize that as well and work to help carve out a pathway for them, not use them as another viable body.

[swkansasref33]

Contact local colleges and ask to speak to the person in charge of intramural programs... Volunteer to help train officials for intramural programs, and use that as a way to recruit officials by making a personal connection with individuals who may have some sort of interest in it.

[RedAndWhiteRef]

Originally Posted by swkansasref33

Contact local colleges and ask to speak to the person in charge of intramural programs... Volunteer to help train officials for intramural programs, and use that as a way to recruit officials by making a personal connection with individuals who may have some sort of interest in it.

We have several officials in our association who are student refs at the local university. Doing IM was how I started officiating.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Even if they don't have upward mobility goals and want to make money and stay involved in the game. For young competitive player who is now transitioning from their playing career to a potential officiating career, low level games are not the "game" they want to stay involved in. Making sure they get games that at least maintain interest and resemble the game as they currently understand it are important to rentention as well.

If they want to be upwardly mobile its important to recognize that as well and work to help carve out a pathway for them, not use them as another viable body.

As long as they understand that they have to put in the reps and the games at the lower level in order to get where they want to get.

There are people who think they should be working varsity in year 2 who are clearly not ready when things fall down around them. Should we give these people what they want just so they don't walk away?

I'm in year 30 now. Took me 5-6 years before I was even considered for varsity contests. Back then everything was 2-person and you were assigned once you were really ready -- better to be a year late than a day early.

Folks don't want to hear that anymore.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Rich

As long as they understand that they have to put in the reps and the games at the lower level in order to get where they want to get.

There are people who think they should be working varsity in year 2 who are clearly not ready when things fall down around them. Should we give these people what they want just so they don't walk away?

I'm in year 30 now. Took me 5-6 years before I was even considered for varsity contests. Back then everything was 2-person and you were assigned once you were really ready -- better to be a year late than a day early.

Folks don't want to hear that anymore.

+1. I go 1 or 2 low level varsity games my second or third year in, however they were a for the most part glorified JV games. It took me 5-6 years to break into the games that are really worth reffing ranks, and even then I'm happy to get 4-5 blockbusters a year. It's these that get me through the other not so fun games.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by Rich

There are people who think they should be working varsity in year 2 who are clearly not ready when things fall down around them. Should we give these people what they want just so they don't walk away?

I've found that for every one of those people, there are 4 others that are varsity capable (or big-game capable) and don't get the chance.

I find this more applicable for young guys that have worked varsity and do an outstanding job but never get assigned a "big" game...

...which reminds me of this meme:

[Player989random]

As a young (I kill the median in every group I'm in) ref in 3 sports, I notice the same problem in each group I'm with. Answering the recruiting, go to an intramural program. Believe you me, when I heard $65 as the starting game fee I gave up dealing with frat-fights every Sunday-Thursday for $9/hour. Your bigger issue is retention. Even in IM's we had about a 16% return rate. Most kids left because they couldn't handle being shouted at for 3 hours a night. Now imagine those guys in a gym on Friday night.

Yet even if you find the guys who don't care about Billy the angry dad, you get the guys who are tired of the politics and lack of mobility. I'm not reffing girl's MS for 4 years to "pay my dues" when it's clear as day that the Varsity guys can't even walk up and down a court. Hearing crap like we were "great officials but too young to work Varsity" while a board member's nephew worked a playoff game in his 2nd year didn't help."Trust the process" they said. **** the process.

As for the belief that "we don't want to hear" that we aren't ready, nah man, we're just tired of the corruption. You'll never be ready for even a bad Varsity game if you spend all your time reffing 5-step travels and double dribbles. And I've never met a good ref who thought he was Varsity ready after his first year.

My advice is that when you go to recruit these kids, you be honest. You won't work Varsity for a while, and even then not a quality one, because of office politics. Once they hear that, most will stay because they're curious, or want the cash. Lord knows it's why I do soccer.

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by Player989random

As a young (I kill the median in every group I'm in) ref in 3 sports, I notice the same problem in each group I'm with. Answering the recruiting, go to an intramural program. Believe you me, when I heard $65 as the starting game fee I gave up dealing with frat-fights every Sunday-Thursday for $9/hour. Your bigger issue is retention. Even in IM's we had about a 16% return rate. Most kids left because they couldn't handle being shouted at for 3 hours a night. Now imagine those guys in a gym on Friday night.

Yet even if you find the guys who don't care about Billy the angry dad, you get the guys who are tired of the politics and lack of mobility. I'm not reffing girl's MS for 4 years to "pay my dues" when it's clear as day that the Varsity guys can't even walk up and down a court. Hearing crap like we were "great officials but too young to work Varsity" while a board member's nephew worked a playoff game in his 2nd year didn't help."Trust the process" they said. **** the process.

As for the belief that "we don't want to hear" that we aren't ready, nah man, we're just tired of the corruption. You'll never be ready for even a bad Varsity game if you spend all your time reffing 5-step travels and double dribbles. And I've never met a good ref who thought he was Varsity ready after his first year.

My advice is that when you go to recruit these kids, you be honest. You won't work Varsity for a while, and even then not a quality one, because of office politics. Once they hear that, most will stay because they're curious, or want the cash. Lord knows it's why I do soccer.

*valid points actually.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

*valid points actually.

And as somebody who has officiated his entire 16 year officiating career in Virginia, his accounting of how things go in the commonwealth rings true.