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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 25, 2017, 12:31am
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I agree with many of the members. About 20 percent of these you may have a point. 2 things-

1) As has already been stated, you need to know the level of officials you are going to get in your games. Not much you can do about that except teach your players that the only thing they can control in the game, heck in life even, is their attitude and their effort. I coach and officiate (different sports) and this is the one thing I have to constantly remind high school students.

2) I heard this concept when I first started doing higher level ball and thus getting into video review. If you have to look at a video more than once or slow it down to see a violation or foul, consider the ruling on the court correct. Granted we can always break things down further and get better for the future but in a game most of us don't have the luxury of seeing something more than once or to ask the replay operator to slow down the video. If you see a mistake in real time the first time, then I would ask the calling (or non-calling) official what they saw and why they had that opinion on the play. You aren't going to change their mind.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 25, 2017, 01:02am
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This is asinine. The level of basketball is bad to begin with which just makes everyone look bad. I've been part of games like these and no matter what you do you can't come out of it smelling like anything but sh*t. You aren't going to get D1 officials at this level, it is what it is. They missed some, they got some right, and some were really inconclusive on video. One thing is for sure. The people in the stands are morons. Get over it.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 25, 2017, 04:33am
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I only watched the first 5-6 plays. After you were wrong on about half of them, I stopped watching. Not worth the time.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 25, 2017, 05:10am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xyrph View Post
Look I get it. Officiating is hard. It's difficult to make split second decisions and to be right on each throughout a whole game.
Grab a whistle and some stripes, get on the floor, and call your perfect game. We'll watch......and not say a thing.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 25, 2017, 06:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xyrph View Post
Thank you for this assessment. Could you please comment on the play that starts at 2:26? Blue 12 switches her pivot foot three times before releasing the ball for the dribble and then extends her elbow into White 22's chest while driving by.

There is no travel call and instead a blocking call is made against #22?
Why TF are you expecting us to explain someone else's judgment?

What experience level are you expecting from men and women who officiate girls basketball played at that talent level? How much are these officials getting paid? How much training do they get from entity assigning these games?

Where is the film of parents who complain about their child's playing time? Where is the video of parents complaining about your coaching decisions? Do you let parents come into your venue and constantly complain about what you're doing? Where are the videos of referees making bad calls in your favor? Where is a video of you apologizing for the bad coaching decision you made?

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Last edited by Raymond; Wed Jan 25, 2017 at 07:01am. Reason: 8
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 25, 2017, 07:13am
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I like how #4 (your daughter?) just plays the game and doesn't concern herself with the officials. You and those two jackwagon parents in the video could learn a thing or two from her.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 25, 2017, 07:22am
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Violations ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Bill View Post
Which violations does it apply to?
Ten seconds on free throw. Maybe three seconds in the lane.

Nothing involving a boundary.

THE INTENT AND PURPOSE OF THE RULES
The restrictions which the rules place upon the players are intended to create a
balance of play ... is important to know the intent and purpose of a rule so that
it may be intelligently applied in each play situation. A player or a team should
not be permitted an advantage which is not intended by a rule. Neither should
play be permitted to develop which may lead to placing a player at a disadvantage
not intended by a rule.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 25, 2017, 07:37am
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Are there incorrect calls and incorrect no calls in this video? Sure....

But I'll say that the convenient timing of some of the slow mo used just shows how slow mo can distort and make a real time decision appear worse than it actually is. If one wants to make an apparent no call on a carry appear worse than it really it...one just goes to slow motion at the apparent time of the carry. Look at how long it came to "rest" here. Totally ignoring the fact that 30-40 feet away from the basket with absolutely no pressure...no one really wants that called except for the time when EVERYONE...even his own coach...is calling for the call. You'll have a defensive coach maybe bring that up but...that's more him trying to get an extra possession.

I can already hear it...but APG....advantage/disadvantage doesn't apply to violations! We already do this with certain violations in certain situations....for instance...3 seconds and 10 seconds on the FT shooter. As much as we make this a science (which as a whole is a good thing)...there's still some art of this.

I'll also echo the sentiment...that a lot of factors go into what type of ball an official will work...and this will itself...effect the caliber of officials one will get for a game. For a lot of officials the quality presented in this clip is not "worth" it...especially for the pay.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 25, 2017, 07:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xyrph View Post
Look I get it. Officiating is hard. It's difficult to make split second decisions and to be right on each throughout a whole game.

My players practice all year long. We do travel ball. We prepare. It's frustrating when the officials of a given game let so many clear violations by opponents slide and then make calls against us.

It happens every game. I start off the games giving the benefit of the doubt and by the 2nd quarter, I'm often steaming.
I get it....coaching/playing/supporting your team is hard. It's difficult to stay objective when you've invested so much physically/fiscally/emotional and to try and win every single game.

I'm constantly trying to better myself. I work games all year long. I go to camps. I break down film. I get together with like minded officials. It's just frustrating when you're constantly being yelled at and downgraded by players/coaches/fans. It's especially frustrating when maybe one call goes for their team but then something goes against them they are all up in arms.

It happens every game. I start off the game giving all participants the benefit of the doubt and by the halfway mark of the 1st quarter...I find myself having to especially ignore everyone in the stands.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 25, 2017, 08:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Ten seconds on free throw. Maybe three seconds in the lane.

Nothing involving a boundary.

[/I]
I'd add some travels and carries. Maybe a swinging elbow. Going out of bounds on a baseline cut. Some hitting the ball with a fist.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 25, 2017, 08:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xyrph View Post
Thank you for this assessment. Could you please comment on the play that starts at 2:26? Blue 12 switches her pivot foot three times before releasing the ball for the dribble and then extends her elbow into White 22's chest while driving by.

There is no travel call and instead a blocking call is made against #22?
yes, it was a travel. No it was not an "extends her elbow into white 22's chest."
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 25, 2017, 09:18am
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I would add that you should see how the other coaches in the conference feel about the officiating and raise the concerns to the association.

when you play road games that are assigned by a different group, is the officiating different / noticeably better?
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 25, 2017, 09:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xyrph View Post
Look I get it. Officiating is hard. It's difficult to make split second decisions and to be right on each throughout a whole game.

My players practice all year long. We do travel ball. We prepare. It's frustrating when the officials of a given game let so many clear violations by opponents slide and then make calls against us.

It happens every game. I start off the games giving the benefit of the doubt and by the 2nd quarter, I'm often steaming.

What I've chosen to do this year is just compile a video of some of these and it's certainly been cathartic.

I'd like to share it with you in the hopes that you can see the frustration these calls cause the teams, coaches, parents, fans.

So you are that guy? The guy that lives through his kids and thinks his kid is the next WNBA star in the making. Dreams of college being paid for because you can't save the money yourself.

Based on the video, some of the missed calls are bad, some of them had little to no effect on the game. Why call all of them and stop the game and ruin flow when you don't have to? You whine a LOT!!!!!!!

The team in white isn't that good anyway, regardless of your traveling, yearlong practicing, and hours of preparation. Do you really want the refs to call every little thing in girls games? If you do, you will be there all night long. You are whining way too much and, if it hasn't happened yet, I'm betting you get tossed at some point.

I think instead of traveling a lot and practicing all year, you should take some time off and become an official. Then, put together a tape of your best and worst calls. We would love to see that.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 25, 2017, 09:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Nice flop on that screen.

"She threw her to the ground!"

LO-freaking-L.

Is that the ever present "assistant with a big mouth" we all know and love saying that? She'd get whacked quickly if I was working.

I also love the spin move your player tries where she obviously travels. Is that your point there, too? They missed her travel?

And there's the screen your player set where she was run into and she went to the ground. You do know that contact on a legal screen can be severe and not a foul, right?\

I can't watch any more of this. Maybe if the basketball was better.

You're in the wrong place, dude. And you need to buy yourself a clue, too.
Not very good basketball at all. After all, it's a girls game and that's what you get on a nightly basis.

I guess maybe the "carry" while crossing half court or in the frontcourt with token defensive pressure needs to be called every time so that the length of a girls game can approach 2 hours?

When is the video of calls that benefitted your team coming?
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 25, 2017, 09:36am
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Others have commented on it but the quality of the basketball is not super high. As a result:

- You don't get top officials.

- The officials you do get are spending more time deciding what to call or not call to give the game flow and not take 3 hours. Rather than calling what is happening

- The tactics/habits/skills habits being employed on both sides are creating chaotic environment which again leads to more of these situations for less than top officials trying to manage and create game flow.


In related news nothing you ask of us, get as a response from us, or say to officials before, during, after a game they've officiated is going to change any of what you are seeing. Things that will change it. Level/quality of play in games (higher quality skills and games will not only have less of these situations to manage you will get better officials). If you wanted to officiate and get involved in a local board or association maybe from the inside you could see things differently or at least understand the rationale behind what you are seeing. If you still thought change needed to be affected you could climb the ranks and actually get change affected.
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