Does Continuation Apply?

[Adam]

Mark, I'm going to humor you and ask you how your question is relevant. You can't take out a major part of the play like that. Of course the shot would have counted if she hadn't been fouled.

You're saying the shooting motion starts when she begins her jump stop?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Adam

Mark, I'm going to humor you and ask you how your question is relevant. You can't take out a major part of the play like that. Of course the shot would have counted if she hadn't been fouled.

You're saying the shooting motion starts when she begins her jump stop?

I know you are asking him but that is what he said in paragraph 11 of his ...whatever we call it. He actually said it starts when the dribble ends. Same thing..different words

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I know you are asking him but that is what he said in paragraph 11 of his ...whatever we call it. He actually said it starts when the dribble ends. Same thing..different words

I honestly didn't read this version of the dissertation. Thanks for taking the time for me.

I'll just quickly disagree with that assessment of this particular play.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Adam

I honestly didn't read this version of the dissertation. Thanks for taking the time for me.

I'll just quickly disagree with that assessment of this particular play.

Yes, for some reason I read it all

[Nevadaref]

A jumpstop is not part of the habitual throwing movement. That should be clear to everyone, despite what MTD says.

Let me point out that the continuous motion rule states that the throwing motion must have started BEFORE the time of the foul for any stepping or arm movement to be permitted.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Mark, Jr., and I are having dinner after our game right now. We were officiating S.O. in Defiance, Ohio, tonight. Still have about 45 minutes before we are home. Therefore, I will not be responding to any comments tonight except to say that NevadaRef can think of the same three or four other plays that will prove my point.

Have a great evening everyone.

MTD, Sr.

[BigT]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

A jumpstop is not part of the habitual throwing movement. That should be clear to everyone, despite what MTD says.

Let me point out that the continuous motion rule states that the throwing motion must have started BEFORE the time of the foul for any stepping or arm movement to be permitted.

I like this..

[Rich]

4-11-1:

Continuous motion applies to a try or tap for field goals and free throws, but it has no significance unless there is a foul by any defensive player during the interval which begins when the habitual throwing movement starts a try or with the touching on a tap and ends when the ball is clearly in flight.

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There is no way that going into a jump stop is after the "habitual throwing motion" has started.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

A jumpstop is not part of the habitual throwing movement. That should be clear to everyone, despite what MTD says.

Let me point out that the continuous motion rule states that the throwing motion must have started BEFORE the time of the foul for any stepping or arm movement to be permitted.

and:



ART. 2 . . . If an opponent fouls after a player has started a try for goal, he/she is permitted to
complete the customary arm movement, and if pivoting or stepping when fouled, may complete the
usual foot or body movement in any activity while holding the ball. These privileges are granted
only when the usual throwing motion has started before the foul occurs and before the ball is in
flight.

In the play, (and in some of Mark's 8 plays, perhaps -- it was hard to follow) the girls was not pivoting or stepping WHEN FOULED.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Bob and Big Cat:

I made the Plays easier for you to follow:

Play A: Team A has the ball in its FC. A1, Team A's 7'-00" right handed center is set up in the low post with his back to the basket. A1 receives a pass from A2, and then in one continuous motion: he picks up his left foot, jumps off his right foot (to his left), lands on his left foot, then jumps off his left foot, and while airborne either: 1) releases the ball on a pass to A3, or 2) releases the ball for a hook shot that goes through the basket. A1 is fouled by B1 after he has started to step with his left foot but before but before he releases the ball for his: (1) pass to A3, or (2) hook shot. What it your Ruling?


Play B: Team A has the ball in its FC. A1, Team A's 7'-00" right handed center is dribbling the ball while set up in the low post with his back to the basket. A1 stops his dribble and then in one continuous motion: he picks up his left foot, jumps off his right foot (to his left), lands on his left foot, then jumps off his left foot, and while airborne either: 1) releases the ball on a pass to A3, or 2) releases the ball for a hook shot that goes through the basket. A1 is fouled by B1 anytime after he has started to step with his left foot but before he releases the ball for his: (1) pass to A3, or (2) hook shot. What it your Ruling?


Play C: A1 catches a pass from A2 while both of her feet are in the air. She then, in one continuous motion, lands on her right foot, then jumps off her right foot, then lands on her left foot, and then jumps off of her left foot, after which she releases the ball: 1) on a pass to A3, or 2) a layup that goes through the basket. A1 is fouled by B1 anytime after she has caught A2's pass and but before she releases the ball for her: (1) pass to A3, or (2) layup. What it your Ruling?


Play D: A1 is dribbling the ball and ends her dribble while both of her feet are in the air. She then, in one continuous motion, lands on her right foot, then jumps off her right foot, then lands on her left foot, and then jumps off of her left foot, after which she releases the ball for her: 1) on a pass to A3, or 2) a layup that goes through the basket. A1 is fouled by B1 anytime after she has ended her dribble but before she releases the ball for her: (1) pass to A3, or (2) layup. What it your Ruling?


I started officiating in 1971 and graduated from H.S. in 1969 (and played on two league and sectional championship teams; my H.S. coach was a founding member in 1948 of the LOA in Warren, Ohio, of which I am still a member), and the Continuous Motion Rule and how it is applied has not changed in well over 50 years; my personal collection of NFHS and NCAA rules start in 1971 but I have one NFHS/NCAA Rules Book from 1963, so that is how I know the CMR has not changed in over 50 years.

The CMR was written as such to insure that the shooter was not penalized and the defender rewarded for committing a foul. The authors of the CMR understood that a player that is dribbling the ball cannot shoot the ball and that only after the offensive player has ended his/her dribble can he/she begin his/her try.

The 8 plays that I have provided in this post show how the rules tell us that there are many times when the start of the try is well before the actual release of the ball. The rules do this by not defining what is the "habitual throwing motion", what is "when the habitual throwing motion has started", and what is the "motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball". See NFHS R4-S11-A1 and A2, and NFHS R4-S41-A3.

The rules further define what legal footwork a player make take after he/she ends her dribble. This legal footwork, when done in one continuous movement (or motion) can be considerable between the time of the end of the dribble and the release of the ball on a try. What the rules do not define (or limit for that matter) is how much or how little of that legal footwork can be taken between the time the player ends his/her dribble and releasing the ball for a try. In other words, the authors of the CMR understood that a try for goal was more complex than simply releasing the ball from the shooter's hand.

CMR allows the offensive player to complete any and all legal footwork needed to release the ball for a try. The CMR prevents any foul by the defense during that period between the ending the dribble and prior to the release for a try from negating the try. To allow the try to be negated would give the defense an advantage and the offensive a disadvantage the CMR prevents.

With what I have said in mind, study Plays A2, B2, C2, and D2, and how negating A1's try rewards B1 for fouling and penalizes A1 for being fouled, and how allowing B1 to gain such an advantage is not allowed by the CMR and therefore, the same principle applies to the play in the video.

MTD, Sr.