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Old Wed Jan 18, 2017, 05:48am
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Saddest T I ever gave

I had a game last year and was telling the story to another official and she said she would have done it differently. It was a girls varsity game with 2 below average teams.

Team A was home and had a full bench available. Team B only had 6 players. Well it ends up being a real war of attrition it is a 1 point game with 30 seconds to go and Team A trailing calls for a timeout. Team B at this time only has 5 girls due to an injury.

The 2nd horn blows and team B comes out onto the court and sets up in a 2-3 zone. I am inbounding the ball at the mid court line. I become team A several times to come onto the floor and after 10-15 seconds of extended time I blow my whistle place the ball on the floor and start my count.

Team A still isn't rushing onto the floor. A gird from team B starts sprinting over to the ball on the ground and picks the ball up (I couldn't believe she was doing this and wanted to tell her not to, but I didn't want to effect a close game. I called a technical foul on the girl and it was her 5th foul so they were playing a girl short.

Team A makes both free throws and wins by a point as Team B doesn't even foul to extend the game.

I was telling this story to another official and she said she would have just called a delay of game warning for going over the line. I never thought I might be wrong in the technical call because she touched the ball over the out of bounds line, but technically to get there she would have put a body part over the line 1st. I am just playing devils advocate with myself I guess, but wanted to see what you guys thought.


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Old Wed Jan 18, 2017, 06:04am
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The NFHS has indicated that while what you say about crossing the line first is true, a single motion in crossing the line and touching the ball is treated as touching the ball.

That said, it is written with the context of being in the throwers hands. In reading the rule, it seems a delay warning might be in order:

Rule 9-2 Penalties:
Quote:
3. If an opponent(s) reaches through the throw-in boundary-line plane and touches or dislodges the ball while in possession of the thrower or being passed to a teammate outside the boundary line (as in 7-5-7), a technical foul shall be charged to the offender. No warning for delay required. See 10-3-10 Penalty.
This rule doesn't actually cover the situation where the ball is on the ground for the resuming play procedure. So, is it really a T if it is not in the hands of the thrower? Perhaps there is a case play that covers this. (I need to get to bed so I'm not going to search for it tonight).
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Old Wed Jan 18, 2017, 08:52am
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7.5.1 SITUATION B:

Team A does not break the huddle after the second horn for a 60-second time-out. The official puts the ball down at the designated spot and begins the five-second count. The administering official is between four and five on the count when Team B reaches over the boundary and grabs the ball.

RULING: Delay-of-game warning on Team B for reaching across the plane. No Team A member ever possessed the ball for the throw-in; therefore, a technical foul would not be assessed. (9-2 Penalty 3)
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Old Wed Jan 18, 2017, 09:02am
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Thanks guys.


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Old Wed Jan 18, 2017, 11:50am
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Say What?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunz722 View Post
I had a game last year and was telling the story to another official and she said she would have done it differently. It was a girls varsity game with 2 below average teams.

Team A was home and had a full bench available. Team B only had 6 players. Well it ends up being a real war of attrition it is a 1 point game with 30 seconds to go and Team A trailing calls for a timeout. Team B at this time only has 5 girls due to an injury.

The 2nd horn blows and team B comes out onto the court and sets up in a 2-3 zone. I am inbounding the ball at the mid court line. I become team A several times to come onto the floor and after 10-15 seconds of extended time I blow my whistle place the ball on the floor and start my count.

Team A still isn't rushing onto the floor. A gird from team B starts sprinting over to the ball on the ground and picks the ball up (I couldn't believe she was doing this and wanted to tell her not to, but I didn't want to effect a close game. I called a technical foul on the girl and it was her 5th foul so they were playing a girl short.

Team A makes both free throws and wins by a point as Team B doesn't even foul to extend the game.

I was telling this story to another official and she said she would have just called a delay of game warning for going over the line. I never thought I might be wrong in the technical call because she touched the ball over the out of bounds line, but technically to get there she would have put a body part over the line 1st. I am just playing devils advocate with myself I guess, but wanted to see what you guys thought.


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In your comments you stated " (I couldn't believe she was doing this and wanted to tell her not to, but I didn't want to effect a close game." So putting the ball down and starting your count wasn't affecting the game? The potential is there as you discovered by Team B touching the ball or a 5 second violation on team A to do exactly that...effect the game. I agree that a Delay of Game Warning would have been the way to go.
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Old Wed Jan 18, 2017, 11:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCAAREF View Post
In your comments you stated " (I couldn't believe she was doing this and wanted to tell her not to, but I didn't want to effect a close game." So putting the ball down and starting your count wasn't affecting the game? The potential is there as you discovered by Team B touching the ball or a 5 second violation on team A to do exactly that...effect the game. I agree that a Delay of Game Warning would have been the way to go.
Putting the ball down is the prescribed method of resuming play here. Coaching the defense is not.
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Old Wed Jan 18, 2017, 11:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Putting the ball down is the prescribed method of resuming play here. Coaching the defense is not.
Well, there are some of those that think getting them the hell out of the huddle is a better way to go.
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Old Wed Jan 18, 2017, 12:01pm
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Well, there are some of those that think getting them the hell out of the huddle is a better way to go.
Area-specific, and it works for me 99% of the time. It works around here because, for the most part, officials aren't afraid to put it down. I've got no problem with either approach. At some point, you have to stop cajoling and TCOB.
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Old Wed Jan 18, 2017, 12:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Area-specific, and it works for me 99% of the time. It works around here because, for the most part, officials aren't afraid to put it down. I've got no problem with either approach. At some point, you have to stop cajoling and TCOB.
30 seconds left, tight game -- not when I want to pull out the ROP procedure for the first time.
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Old Wed Jan 18, 2017, 12:04pm
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30 seconds left, tight game -- not when I want to pull out the ROP procedure for the first time.
Good point, but I think we all have a point where we feel we had to. Is it 15 seconds? 60 seconds? That answer might change based on several factors.
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Old Wed Jan 18, 2017, 12:04pm
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We gave them plenty of time to come out. Close to 20 seconds so the coach was getting an advantage by not coming on to the court after the minute. In retrospect if something similar happens again I now know that this is a delay of game warning not a T if the ball is not being held. Lesson learned.


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Old Wed Jan 18, 2017, 12:05pm
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That's why we stress the non-administrating official needs to hang near the benches until the second team comes out. That official needs to be encouraging the team to come out. At some point though, we are putting the ball in play if they resist.
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Old Wed Jan 18, 2017, 12:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunz722 View Post
We gave them plenty of time to come out. Close to 20 seconds so the coach was getting an advantage by not coming on to the court after the minute. In retrospect if something similar happens again I now know that this is a delay of game warning not a T if the ball is not being held. Lesson learned.


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Did someone walk into the huddle on the second horn? Blow a whistle? Clap and yell, "send them out, send them out"?

Or did you stand and wait to see if they were going to come out on their own?
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Old Wed Jan 18, 2017, 12:07pm
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No my partner was all over them trying to get them out on the court. I am quite loud in a small gym. Plenty of warnings were given. I hate being the jerk official and try to give teams every benefit of the doubt within the rules.


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Old Wed Jan 18, 2017, 12:09pm
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Originally Posted by gunz722 View Post
No my partner was all over them trying to get them out on the court. I am quite loud in a small gym. Plenty of warnings were given. I hate being the jerk official and try to give teams every benefit of the doubt within the rules.


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OK, well, then I'd put it down on the floor.

But I've done that only once in the last 3 years, so it would have to be really bad for me to do that. I'm also pretty slow in starting the timeout clock to avoid these kind of things, too, so we just don't have these problems. Could be an area thing.
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