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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 12, 2017, 12:08pm
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Originally Posted by jeremy341a View Post
He managed to get a shot off that almost went in and then give his team a rebounding opportunity.
This.

While I also would not have a problem with it either way and in all likelihood would have passed on it, it can be thought of in terms of displacement. If a point guard uses his non-dribbling hand to demonstrably push or bump back a defender 2-3 feet -- or buries a shoulder to push off a defender after a stopped dribble -- to make space for a shot, wouldn't it be PC?
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 12, 2017, 12:30pm
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Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
Saw a call a Tuesday night. Defender is legal, never moves, offensive player driving by the defense and they hit shoulder to shoulder. Official called a block. I asked myself what the defender did wrong. I know it wasn't technically torso to torso, however I had a hard time with the block here. My opinion was a PC, or a pass.
This is one of my favorite questions not only to ask myself, but also to ask a coach when they're begging for a foul on the defense, or even a partner if I'm questioning something they called when we discuss things after the game.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 12, 2017, 12:34pm
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Originally Posted by jeremy341a View Post
He managed to get a shot off that almost went in and then give his team a rebounding opportunity.
I don't view the jumping in as giving the shooter an advantage. He actually stood a better chance of scoring if he just elevated and shot the ball. Jumping in creates more difficult shot. I'm glad there was no bailout of the offense. Defense did nothing wrong. There's merit to saying more of these should be called. Not so much, imo, to stop flopping but to make the offense pull up and shoot the short jumper.

These days i see so many big players catch ball, great size advantage, and instead of just shooting it they want to get from 5 feet to 2 feet. My mindset is not to bail them out but hasn't gone to calling this play a foul…yet. Like Rich said, would everybody do it? Would need to come from the top.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 12, 2017, 12:38pm
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No call....

I'd suspect that none of my college assignors would want a call on this play...but I suppose a PC call is better than a block because the defense was legal.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 12, 2017, 12:49pm
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Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
Saw a call a Tuesday night. Defender is legal, never moves, offensive player driving by the defense and they hit shoulder to shoulder. Official called a block. I asked myself what the defender did wrong. I know it wasn't technically torso to torso, however I had a hard time with the block here. My opinion was a PC, or a pass.
Personal confession: That's a hard call for me to make. As described I agree it's a PC, but for whatever reason, I tend to default to block on this. Maybe I see (or have seen) too many defenders shift sideways just as the offense tries to go around (especially with the euro step -- and that means that I have to look for and judge travelling as well) so now I expect it.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 12, 2017, 01:39pm
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position

He did not get a good look. Very narrow in lead, looking through the defenders back. To me he guessed when he saw the defence bumped by the ball handler.

Good defence, offence did nothing wrong. This contact is part of the game, play on!

He needed to be in position to get an "open look"!!
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 12, 2017, 02:05pm
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let's use some logic

Here's the three-part test I would use on this play, with my answers/judgement in parentheses):

1. Did the establish and maintain LGP? (yes)
2. Was either player displaced from their legally-obtained spot on the floor? (yes)
3. Was an advantage gained by one player due to said displacement? (yes)

When you add it up, it's a PC foul... but I could live with a no-call if that's how the game had been officiated to that point.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 12, 2017, 02:16pm
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I was a little more snarky than I needed to be.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 12, 2017, 02:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
Saw a call a Tuesday night. Defender is legal, never moves, offensive player driving by the defense and they hit shoulder to shoulder. Official called a block. I asked myself what the defender did wrong. I know it wasn't technically torso to torso, however I had a hard time with the block here. My opinion was a PC, or a pass.
You're right. Not being torso-to-torso doesn't make it a block if the defender had LGP. That merely means it is probably not going to be a PC with minimal/marginal actual contact. It is not illegal when a shooter/dribble is almost able to avoid the defender instead of hitting them sqaure.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 12, 2017, 03:41pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
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Hah
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 12, 2017, 03:49pm
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Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
I don't view the jumping in as giving the shooter an advantage.
It prevents a defender from jumping to challenge the shot.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 12, 2017, 03:56pm
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Originally Posted by so cal lurker View Post
It prevents a defender from jumping to challenge the shot.
I think, if I remember, defender made it into the air and challenged shot. Offensive player made it more difficult to score by jumping in. Much tougher shot than just elevating up for the 8 footer or whatever.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 12, 2017, 04:51pm
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I agree with the PC foul call. In my opinion it is a PC foul by the book. Would I be able to make that call in real time? I think it depends on a few factors. 1. If it was the first few minutes of the game or start of the second half then I would call it a PC foul and stick to that standard of play. 2. If it was at a point in the game when the standard of play was established and my crew and I let more contact go then I would not call that a PC foul. No call would be appropriate. If the opposing coach received a "T" for responding to this then I am assuming the game was physical and the coach didn't think the contact was up to par with what was being called.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 12, 2017, 04:58pm
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Originally Posted by CJP View Post
I agree with the PC foul call. In my opinion it is a PC foul by the book. Would I be able to make that call in real time? I think it depends on a few factors. 1. If it was the first few minutes of the game or start of the second half then I would call it a PC foul and stick to that standard of play. 2. If it was at a point in the game when the standard of play was established and my crew and I let more contact go then I would not call that a PC foul. No call would be appropriate. If the opposing coach received a "T" for responding to this then I am assuming the game was physical and the coach didn't think the contact was up to par with what was being called.
I wouldn't make any assumptions from the fact that a coach got himself a T.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 12, 2017, 05:23pm
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
I wouldn't make any assumptions from the fact that a coach got himself a T.
To answer the original question about this being a suspect or good call then I think some assumptions need to be made. Early in the game or early second half then it is a great call. Calling this later in the game and it contradicts the style of play already established then it is not a good call. It is the correct call but it does not make it good. Not necessarily bad. My assumption was based on the fact that I never had a coach come at me the first couple minutes of the game or start of the second half for making a call. I have only been doing this a few years so maybe I am just lucky.
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