To T or Not to T--What Would You Have Done?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bas2456

You guys are way too concerned about what time the game is and on what day.

Apply the situation to a 7 pm varsity start with no game before it.

Well there are differences in a 7pm varsity game. There usually is a game before that game. And the schools have been there for some time. So yes I would treat it differently as there is usually plenty of time put on the clock and the teams are already there long before the game starts. A game in the morning on a Saturday, sometimes you have issues of the team getting there. So I would like to even know why the coach was coming out so late and it is possible that someone not authorized started the clock without anyone knowing. The actual time of the game is relevant IMO.

Peace

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well there are differences in a 7pm varsity game. There usually is a game before that game. And the schools have been there for some time. So yes I would treat it differently as there is usually plenty of time put on the clock and the teams are already there long before the game starts. A game in the morning on a Saturday, sometimes you have issues of the team getting there. So I would like to even know why the coach was coming out so late and it is possible that someone not authorized started the clock without anyone knowing. The actual time of the game is relevant IMO.

Peace

As my partner said to me when he came back to stand by me across from the table, he was looking for any way possible to avoid the technical. He was very glad to look at the clock and see that the coach was indeed on time for the 9 AM start.

I've had games where teams are late. Nothing we can do about it and there's often nothing the team can do about it...bus trouble...traffic...whatever. Never had a technical because of stuff like that. Stuff happens.

What was odd in this situation was that it was the home team that was late getting to the court and the home coach that was nearly late with the book.

[jTheUmp]

Even if i was inclined to call a T in this situation in a freshman game (and I'm not, for reasons previously mentioned by several posters previously)...

Home book is the official book. Players were listed in the home (official) book that the coach was carrying with him, and the visitors had their roster provided to the scorer (well, to the scorer's table, at least, and there's NO FSCKING WAY I'd punish the visiting team for not having their names in the home team's book at the 10:00 mark in a situation like this). So there's nothing to penalize.

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

Even if i was inclined to call a T in this situation in a freshman game (and I'm not, for reasons previously mentioned by several posters previously)...

Home book is the official book. Players were listed in the home (official) book that the coach was carrying with him, and the visitors had their roster provided to the scorer (well, to the scorer's table, at least, and there's NO FSCKING WAY I'd punish the visiting team for not having their names in the home team's book at the 10:00 mark in a situation like this). So there's nothing to penalize.

I have no idea whether or not the visitors in this situation had their roster at the scorer's table. Assuming they did, obviously they wouldn't be penalized. That wasn't even a point of conversation.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by bas2456

I have no idea whether or not the visitors in this situation had their roster at the scorer's table. Assuming they did, obviously they wouldn't be penalized. That wasn't even a point of conversation.

If you ignore the type of game this is...

The point is that since the official scorer is likely to be the person with the home book, there are no grounds for a technical foul in the first place. Unless you have proof the visiting team didn't have their roster and starters available to give to the official scorer prior to the ten minute mark.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bas2456

I have no idea whether or not the visitors in this situation had their roster at the scorer's table. Assuming they did, obviously they wouldn't be penalized. That wasn't even a point of conversation.

Toss it up, work the game.

Too much concern over penalizing someone. It's 9am on a Saturday, it's a freshman game. Pick your battles better.

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by Rich

Toss it up, work the game.

Too much concern over penalizing someone. It's 9am on a Saturday, it's a freshman game. Pick your battles better.

As stated above, my partner was looking for any excuse to not assess a technical foul. He got what he was looking for, and we moved on.

Let's say, though, that the conditions are "right" to assess the technical. The visitors coach knows the rule and wants the tech enforced.

You could...enforce the technical, knowing that the coach wanting the tech is correct by rule. Or, you could tell him, no coach, it's a freshman game on a Saturday morning, we're not going to enforce the rule.

Where I work, we're told to enforce the uniform rules at every level. Don't know why we would ignore this rule just because it's a freshman game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bas2456

As stated above, my partner was looking for any excuse to not assess a technical foul. He got what he was looking for, and we moved on.

Let's say, though, that the conditions are "right" to assess the technical. The visitors coach knows the rule and wants the tech enforced.

You could...enforce the technical, knowing that the coach wanting the tech is correct by rule. Or, you could tell him, no coach, it's a freshman game on a Saturday morning, we're not going to enforce the rule.

Where I work, we're told to enforce the uniform rules at every level. Don't know why we would ignore this rule just because it's a freshman game.

There are a lot of assignors in this area that do not want you to be T'ing up everyone for book stuff most of the time either. Again, I really would not care about if they had a certain amount of time, I think I would find a reason to not have that issue. Heck you can always stop the clock on the game clock until you have both teams on the floor. Do everything not to have that situation. It just starts the game in a bad way and then you have to debate how right you were for several minutes. Not worth it most of the time at that level. The only way I would do that is if the conference had a policy and they just did not follow it. But sometimes you do not have even 10 minutes on the clock so you are reaching for the enforcement of this rule.

And I would like to know who wants uniform rules enforced at all levels. Mostly the people I work for say we are to be "technical" at the varsity level. Do what we can to allow them to play at the other levels.

Peace

[Mregor]

Here is your answer...

Originally Posted by bas2456

Where I work, we're told to enforce the uniform rules at every level. Don't know why we would ignore this rule just because it's a freshman game.

If that's what your boss wants, why even ask us?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bas2456

As stated above, my partner was looking for any excuse to not assess a technical foul. He got what he was looking for, and we moved on.

Let's say, though, that the conditions are "right" to assess the technical. The visitors coach knows the rule and wants the tech enforced.

You could...enforce the technical, knowing that the coach wanting the tech is correct by rule. Or, you could tell him, no coach, it's a freshman game on a Saturday morning, we're not going to enforce the rule.

Where I work, we're told to enforce the uniform rules at every level. Don't know why we would ignore this rule just because it's a freshman game.

If it's at the 9 minute mark rather than the 10, I'm not calling it and I will let the coach know that as well. It's Saturday morning (or Monday night), we're going to be relaxed on that a bit. I can tell you for a fact the subvarsity assigner in my area would expect as much, and any coaches who want otherwise are new. If he pushes, I'll just advise him that at some point he's going to appreciate that approach from the officials in our area.

If we're actually delaying the start of the game because of it, I'll call the T and move on.

As for your last sentence, there are other rules we (in my area) are more lax on for sub-varsity games, and they're all of this nature. White uniforms for home team, for example. Double (or illegal) numbers "fixed" with masking tape or duct tape.

You said your partner was looking for an excuse not to call the T when the coach is 1 minute late, the only thing I'd need is the fact that it's a freshman game (Saturday morning is irrelevant, mostly). No one here wants that called in those games.

Your area may be different. And the rule is "ten minutes before scheduled start time." If the game is schedule to start at 9 and the home team isn't on the court by 15 til, I'm making sure the clock gets re-set.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by bas2456

As stated above, my partner was looking for any excuse to not assess a technical foul. He got what he was looking for, and we moved on.

Let's say, though, that the conditions are "right" to assess the technical. The visitors coach knows the rule and wants the tech enforced.

You could...enforce the technical, knowing that the coach wanting the tech is correct by rule. Or, you could tell him, no coach, it's a freshman game on a Saturday morning, we're not going to enforce the rule.

Where I work, we're told to enforce the uniform rules at every level. Don't know why we would ignore this rule just because it's a freshman game.

"sure coach we'll go by the book. Make sure you don't step a foot outside the coaches box because by rule its a T."

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by bas2456

As stated above, my partner was looking for any excuse to not assess a technical foul. He got what he was looking for, and we moved on.

Let's say, though, that the conditions are "right" to assess the technical. The visitors coach knows the rule and wants the tech enforced.

You could...enforce the technical, knowing that the coach wanting the tech is correct by rule. Or, you could tell him, no coach, it's a freshman game on a Saturday morning, we're not going to enforce the rule.

Where I work, we're told to enforce the uniform rules at every level. Don't know why we would ignore this rule just because it's a freshman game.

Sounds like your partner is full of himself and takes 9am freshman games way too seriously.

I won't even begin to apply this to a 7pm varsity contest because this would NEVER happen in that situation. I hate to use the word "never", but let's be realistic. This would never happen. That's why this coach and his players are involved in a 9am Saturday game.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bas2456

As stated above, my partner was looking for any excuse to not assess a technical foul. He got what he was looking for, and we moved on.

Let's say, though, that the conditions are "right" to assess the technical. The visitors coach knows the rule and wants the tech enforced.

You could...enforce the technical, knowing that the coach wanting the tech is correct by rule. Or, you could tell him, no coach, it's a freshman game on a Saturday morning, we're not going to enforce the rule.

Where I work, we're told to enforce the uniform rules at every level. Don't know why we would ignore this rule just because it's a freshman game.

Coach, we've been told not to enforce pre-game book technicals in non-varsity contests.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by bas2456

I've had games where teams are late. Nothing we can do about it and there's often nothing the team can do about it...bus trouble...traffic...whatever. Never had a technical because of stuff like that. Stuff happens.

This. Many of our middle schools have a 4:00 start time. As such, a bus that gets caught in unexpected traffic, accident, construction, etc. has meant I've had a couple of games where the visiting team doesn't get into the gym until 3:50 or so.

When that's happened, I wait for the visiting coach to get situated and ask if he or she has a roster ready to give to the home scorer for filling out the official book. Each time, the coach has been happy to oblige right away, so I've seen no need for a T if the coach provides a roster as soon as possible in these instances.