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-   -   To T or Not to T--What Would You Have Done? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/102059-t-not-t-what-would-you-have-done.html)

bas2456 Sun Jan 08, 2017 02:45pm

To T or Not to T--What Would You Have Done?
 
Interesting situation happened to us yesterday morning.

Had a Frosh boys A/B doubleheader yesterday morning. Rival schools, and both teams had one loss between the two of them thus far.

My partner and I walked out to the floor for a 9:00 AM start. Green is warming up on their end, but white is nowhere to be seen. The scoreboard clock is at 12:00. At 10:30 my partner walks over to the table. White had started to trickle in and warm up, but no coach, no book at the table. At 9:00 or so on the scoreboard clock, White's coach comes into the gym with the book in hand. My partner told him we'd be starting with a technical. The coach said but wait, it's only 8:49! Sure enough, the clock on the wall says 8:49.

My partner gave him the benefit of the doubt, and we did not start with a technical.

Put yourself in my partner's shoes here. What would you do? What about for a varsity game? Interested to hear what you guys would do.

Adam Sun Jan 08, 2017 03:27pm

Freshman boys' game? I wouldn't have called the T even if it was 8:51.

BlueDevilRef Sun Jan 08, 2017 03:46pm

I would have figured out which clock we needed to use and penalize (or not) from there. I don't want to get a rep as the hard ass who gives a bunch of T's but this is a rule that has been around since clocks were invented. I've stopped being lenient on this stuff and with uniform stuff. For me, I get sick of hearing the excuse that " the refs the other night didn't care/make us fix it/penalize" and I have decided that I won't be the reason a ref hears that excuse down the road.

JRutledge Sun Jan 08, 2017 04:12pm

Freshman Saturday morning game, I would not do much of anything with that kind of situation. Often you have a hodgepodge of situations and would not dare penalize a team when things are so disorganized. Get to the game and play the game. I do not care what the clock says.

Peace

Rich Sun Jan 08, 2017 04:13pm

9AM freshmen?

Odds of having an administrative technical around here for something like this at that level on a Saturday morning are exactly zero. I'd consider myself fortunate that everyone is in place BY 9AM for one of those.

Then again, I have never seen a "freshman rivalry" game or an official who knew a school's freshman team's record before, either.

JeffM Sun Jan 08, 2017 04:16pm

I think your partner should have discussed with his partner(s) the value of giving a technical foul for a 9:00 AM Freshman Boys game for the book not being at the table. Perhaps, as a crew, you could decide on whether it is something your association would want enforced.

I do think your partner was right to rescind the technical when it was discovered that it was before 8:50.

I don't know many officials who like to start the game with a technical.

JRutledge Sun Jan 08, 2017 04:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 996623)

Then again, I have never seen a "freshman rivalry" game or an official who knew a school's freshman team's record before, either.

I can think of several schools that if they play their rival, it has nothing to do with previous records. It is the atmosphere of the particular schools involved.

I could even see and have seen coaches get very testy about things done or not done in these situations, even at the freshman level.

Peace

Rich Sun Jan 08, 2017 04:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 996628)
I can think of several schools that if they play their rival, it has nothing to do with previous records. It is the atmosphere of the particular schools involved.



I could even see and have seen coaches get very testy about things done or not done in these situations, even at the freshman level.



Peace



Around here you'd have about 20 people in the gym at 9am, not including the coaches and players. :)

JRutledge Sun Jan 08, 2017 04:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 996629)
Around here you'd have about 20 people in the gym at 9am, not including the coaches and players. :)

But a rivalry is not always about the amount of people in the gym. It is the attitudes of the participants, which certainly involves the coaches. And if it has been ingrained into them that they are not to like or have to beat their crosstown opponent or the team where the kids grew up together and happen to play at different schools, that could be a reaction.

Peace

Rich Sun Jan 08, 2017 04:58pm

To which the proper 9am response is a cup of coffee and an eye roll. :)

JRutledge Sun Jan 08, 2017 05:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 996631)
To which the proper 9am response is a cup of coffee and an eye roll. :)

I agree, but that does not mean you will not have to deal with them on a more intense level. After all we are in the people business, even when they are goofy.

Peace

Adam Sun Jan 08, 2017 05:36pm

I've had exactly 1 T for this. Coach didn't provide the roster until game time. 9 minutes instead of 10 minutes in a Saturday morning subvarsity game, I'm just grateful he was there in time to get everything set up.

bas2456 Sun Jan 08, 2017 05:51pm

You guys are way too concerned about what time the game is and on what day.

Apply the situation to a 7 pm varsity start with no game before it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Adam Sun Jan 08, 2017 05:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bas2456 (Post 996637)
You guys are way too concerned about what time the game is and on what day.

Apply the situation to a 7 pm varsity start with no game before it.

The point really isn't the time of day. The point is most people don't treat freshman games the same with this type of application.

You can't compare it to a 7 pm varsity game because it's not that. Compare it to a 7 pm Monday night freshman game, and my answer is the same. I'm really not calling this unless we end up having to delay the start of the game for the scorer to get the book ready.

Rich Sun Jan 08, 2017 05:59pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bas2456 (Post 996637)
You guys are way too concerned about what time the game is and on what day.

Apply the situation to a 7 pm varsity start with no game before it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why would I?

If I showed up an hour before a 9am freshman game (like I do for a varsity game) I'd sit in the parking lot waiting for someone to let me in the door.


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