Last Second Shot: Kansas State at Kansas

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

WRONG.

Not even close to four steps. At most it's a pivot foot lifted and returned, no worse than any other travel.

He ended the dribble with the right foot on the floor (right foot the piviot) and stepped to his left, his right (travel), and then his left one more time.

So, it is more than a basic travel of lifting the pivot and returning it. He did that and still took one more.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

He ended the dribble with the right foot on the floor (right foot the piviot) and stepped to his left, his right (travel), and then his left one more time.

So, it is more than a basic travel of lifting the pivot and returning it. He did that and still took one more.

I have the left as the pivot.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

I have the left as the pivot.

My image wasn't loading right when you replied. Look at it now...ball clearly in both hands with the right foot down just after the left came up....before 3 more steps.

The only way the left was the pivot is if he actually caught it before my first screenshot....but that would make it even worse.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

My image wasn't loading right when you replied. Look at it now...ball clearly in both hands with the right foot down just after the left came up....before 3 more steps.

At the risk of sounding like someone else here, I still have the left as the pivot. Regardless, it's still a travel.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

At the risk of sounding like someone else here, I still have the left as the pivot. Regardless, it's still a travel.

Can I ask what, in the screenshots I provided, leads you to not see the first frame as holding the ball with the right foot on or just coming down to the floor? (I know you're not suggesting he had picked up the ball on the prior step on the left foot.)

Are you saying that, live, you would have only recognized the left as the pivot due to the speed? (OK with me if that is what you're saying)

[BigCat]

If I slow it down. He may have touched ball with two hands ending dribble, 5 feet outside 3 line.

I don't like slowing it down because I don't referee in slow mo. It happens so fast and, again, at that level they are accepting that it is ok. I wish we had a view of Weber to see if he is screaming travel. As I mentioned earlier, I called a euro step travel next play down my partner doesn't. Problem.

If it's allowed on both ends it isn't a complaint. I don't like it but as I've said before, it does the game no good if I'm the only person calling travel.

There's no doubt this was travel.

[JeffM]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

He ended the dribble with the right foot on the floor (right foot the piviot) and stepped to his left, his right (travel), and then his left one more time.

So, it is more than a basic travel of lifting the pivot and returning it. He did that and still took one more.

Unless there had been travel calls on similar plays throughout the game, I probably would have passed on it and then wondered if I got it correct. With that much time, I am probably more focused on whether the player got the shot off in time or whether any contact is marginal or not. Then again, I've never worked a game with the benefit of having instant replay to determine whether the horn sounded first.

I think it comes down to when the dribble ends and I don't think the dribbler has two hands on the ball in the first picture. It looks like it in the picture near the half-court logo, but not when you watch the replay (around :28). He might not have two hands on the ball until both feet are in the air around the three point line (generous interpretation). Then, each foot touches the floor once, which would make this a correct no call.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JeffM

I think it comes down to when the dribble ends and I don't think the dribbler has two hands on the ball in the first picture. It looks like it in the picture near the half-court logo, but not when you watch the replay (around :28). He might not have two hands on the ball until both feet are in the air around the three point line (generous interpretation). Then, each foot touches the floor once, which would make this a correct no call.

First, two hands on the ball isn't necessary. When the ball comes to rest in one hand, the player is holding the ball and the travel rules come into effect.

However, even if we go by your opinion of when the player got two hands on the ball, it is still a travel.

For it to not be a travel, he would have had to catch it no sooner than near the FT line where the right foot is coming down.