Last Second Shot: Kansas State at Kansas

[dahoopref]

Thoughts on the coverage of this play:



Putting myself as the C in transition, the "travel" was probably missed due to the secondary defender (#32) setting up in the key as he would get my attention during the drive. I'm not sure why the L was rotating during the drive.

[Adam]

There is good constructive discussion to be had here, let's keep it to that.

Originally Posted by dahoopref

Putting myself as the C in transition, the "travel" was probably missed due to the secondary defender (#32) setting up in the key as he would get my attention during the drive. I'm not sure why the L was rotating during the drive.

I can agree with your analysis of the Slot official. I understood why the Lead rotated -- he knew the amount of time remaining and correctly anticipated that there would be a layup play at the rim. He saw the offensive player coming down Slot side and got over there to have the best look at the play coming down the pipe. There are a LOT of hits on the arm that are missed between Lead and Slot during these drives down the weak side lane line (example: this NBA play from a couple years ago) and he got over there to see those.

[Nevadaref]

This is a blatant traveling violation. The player took FOUR steps after ending his dribble. It is unfortunate that the winning score resulted from this. The defense didn't have a fair chance.

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I can agree with your analysis of the Slot official. I understood why the Lead rotated -- he knew the amount of time remaining and correctly anticipated that there would be a layup play at the rim. He saw the offensive player coming down Slot side and got over there to have the best look at the play coming down the pipe. There are a LOT of hits on the arm that are missed between Lead and Slot during these drives down the weak side lane line (example: this NBA play from a couple years ago) and he got over there to see those.

Thanks for the dialogue. I guess it's one of those things that you "had to be there" on the floor or through experience that the Lead figured to rotate on the drive. In the end, the KU player's drive ended up where the L started from. The L also ended up with a closed look with a view of KSt #32 back; he did a good job staying vertical.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This is a blatant traveling violation. The player took FOUR steps after ending his dribble. It is unfortunate that the winning score resulted from this. The defense didn't have a fair chance.

NVRef, good input.

I agree the travel was blatant but with everything JD Collins preaching about officiating the defense first on drives to the basket, how else is the C supposed to officiate this play in transition? I'm not expecting the KU player to pickup his dribble that far from the key and would look into the paint for the secondary defender. For me, this is a hard play to dissect for coverage. In the end, it'll unfortunately go down as a NCI for the C.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

NVRef, good input.

I agree the travel was blatant but with everything JD Collins preaching about officiating the defense first on drives to the basket, how else is the C supposed to officiate this play in transition? I'm not expecting the KU player to pickup his dribble that far from the key and would look into the paint for the secondary defender. For me, this is a hard play to dissect for coverage. In the end, it'll unfortunately go down as a NCI for the C.

I believe that the Lead should be responsible for that secondary defender. As C, I would be focused on the ball-handler and any primary defender near him.

This is a bad miss, which impacts the outcome of the game. This is the kind of violation that officials are supposed to catch. We discuss quite frequently that we want to get the travels which give a clear advantage. This one is in that category.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This is a blatant traveling violation. The player took FOUR steps after ending his dribble. It is unfortunate that the winning score resulted from this. The defense didn't have a fair chance.

I don't think it is that blatant. I think and argument can be made that he did not actually end his dribble until his right foot is down. Then he steps with his left, jumps from that foot, and completes the layup. The play looks ugly because he lets the ball come up to his left shoulder, but until the point that his right hand touches the ball, we cannot know if he is going to legally dribble again, or end his dribble.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I don't think it is that blatant. I think and argument can be made that he did not actually end his dribble until his right foot is down. Then he steps with his left, jumps from that foot, and completes the layup. The play looks ugly because he lets the ball come up to his left shoulder, but until the point that his right hand touches the ball, we cannot know if he is going to legally dribble again, or end his dribble.

Agree. It happens quick in real time. Fact is. Lot of these type travels aren't called in college. Didn't see the r st of game but I'm betting this wasn't the only one not called.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I am a life long KU fan and I called traveling as I watched the game live.

MTD, Sr.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am a life long KU fan and I called traveling as I watched the game live.

MTD, Sr.

I do agree. It just isn't called much anymore at that level if it happens quick. I see most euro steps as travel. Pivot foot up then down before ball released. Doesn't do me any good to be only person calling it travel.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I am a life long KU fan and I called traveling as I watched the game live.

MTD, Sr.

I have a good buddy who is a KU fan which means I must now cheer AGAINST KU at every opportunity, , and I ALSO called traveling, via text to my buddy, as I watched it live.

The announcers caught it on the replay.

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

The announcers caught it on the replay.

If it takes replay to call traveling, it's probably more marginal than people think.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

If it takes replay to call traveling, it's probably more marginal than people think.

I agree with you on this one most of the time, but this was bad. And it started in open space.

Peace

[Adam]

I see him catching after leaving from his right foot, putting his left foot down (pivot foot). He then steps with his right, and his left one more time before alighting for the shot. It's a travel, but I certainly don't see 4 steps.

In real speed, I caught it and verified it in slow motion. But that final high dribble makes it look much worse than it really was, I think.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I don't think it is that blatant. I think and argument can be made that he did not actually end his dribble until his right foot is down. Then he steps with his left, jumps from that foot, and completes the layup. The play looks ugly because he lets the ball come up to his left shoulder, but until the point that his right hand touches the ball, we cannot know if he is going to legally dribble again, or end his dribble.

I see the same possibility. Told some folks that in a non-officiating forum. Definitely not 4 steps. The earliest he may have gathered is with the left foot down followed by a right foot-left foot step sequence, which would be a travel. But I could see an argument for that the gather wasn't complete until the right foot was down.

Bottom line, it's not as blatant as people want to make it seem. As Adam pointed out, the high dribble throws it off.

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