Think I missed one....

[deecee]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Before this season, I would most likely have agreed with you. However, in NCAA-M, we are now instructed to determine the position of the forearms (vertical vs. horizontal) of the offensive player when officiating these plays. If the offensive player's forearms are more vertical than horizontal, the foul would be on the defensive player for violating the cylinder of the offensive player. This is a common foul on the defense. I would apply these same rules to dead ball contact as well. If the offensive player's forearms are vertical and contact is made above the defensive player's shoulders, this would be a common foul on the defense. Therefore, it should not automatically be a technical or flagrant technical foul on the offense just because the ball is dead.

Yes I agree, however this is one very specific scenario and you're not going to (I don't want to say ever) have this issue occur in a cylinder situation. In fact the cylinder exception IS FOR contact with a an elbow on a defender where the ball handler is making a rip through maneuver to move the ball from one side of their body to the other. The forearm is expected to be perpendicular to the court and any contact with the elbow is deemed a defensive foul. However contact where the forearm is parallel/horizontal to the court, its still a foul on the offensive player.

So although I did say that the expectation is that contact to the head is not to be ignored (and it isn't) in this case it would be. This probably covers a very small percentage of elbow contact. My statement was meant to be taken at face value with common sense applied that ya there is 1 exception.

In your scenario you are expecting a defender to be so close to get called for a foul (non cylinder foul), then the offensive player commits to a rip through maneuver. I just don't see it. It could happen, it's just not when how this happens. Usually it's off a rebound, or a trap and a kid is trying to clear space.