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AP Arrow
Situation: Team A adds a player to their score book. Team Technical foul on Team A. The game starts with 2 foul shots by a team B member followed by a throw-in by B1.
Question: when does the AP arrow get switched? I'd like a rule reference. I've been told conflicting things by different (respected) officials. One was that it's a normal AP throw in and the arrow gets switched when the throw in ends like normal. I was also told that the arrow gets switched immediately after B1 has the ball in his/her hands. The reason being that this is the initial starting of team possession so switch the arrow to A's basket before the ball is thrown in. Rule 4-3 Art. 3b?! What are free throws for a non-common foul in this situation? Any help would be appreciated.
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Burtis449 |
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The arrow doesn't get switched since it hasn't been set. Team B gets 2 FT's, plus the ball to start the game. The arrow is set to team A to begin the game since B has the initial possession.
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in OS I trust |
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Again, Rule 4-3 is only employed in setting the arrow's initial direction, which happens at the beginning of the game or any extra period. 6-4-4 describes how the arrow is switched on an AP throw-in, which accounts for the vast majority of situations in which the scorer does something with the arrow. |
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A) In the situation being discussed, with the arrow having been set to Team A, if on the ensuing throw-in, A2 and B2 simultaneously catch the ball, which team has the opportunity to attempt the subsequent throw-in?
B) On an alternating throw-in, other than the situation discussed above, with the arrow indicating that team B gets the opportunity to attempt the throw-in, if the throw-in by B1 is simultaneously caught by B2 and A2, which team has the subsequent throw-in? And when is the arrow switched?
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To be good at a sport, one must be smart enough to play the game -- and dumb enough to think that it's important . . . Last edited by Rob1968; Sun Oct 02, 2016 at 07:53pm. |
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B. When B1s alternating throw in is simultaneously caught by B2 and A2 that AP throw in is over. Arrow goes to A. A gets the AP throw in from A2 and B2 simultaneously catching B1 throw in. If B1 would have held the ball over the boundary and A1 grabbed it and both held on, that AP throw in would not have ended and B gets it again for the AP throw in. That's a case play somewhere. |
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I agree.
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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I also agree. I worked a couple of games yesterday, as a mentor, with newer officials. These are the kinds of scenarios that need to be understood, before we see them on the court.
Big Cat's response is excellent, and I'm certain that the stated differences, and the situation in the B) answer will help someone in the upcoming season. I constantly invite officials to check out the threads on this site. The wide ranging experience and knowledge, here, is priceless. Case Book 4.3.3, 4.42.5, 6.4.1 Sit. A, 6.4.5 Sit. A, are of note in the discussion. 6.4.5 Sit. B concerns the the situation of the thrower holding the ball through the end-line or side-line plane.
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To be good at a sport, one must be smart enough to play the game -- and dumb enough to think that it's important . . . |
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This play is being over thought.
The NFHS, NCAA Men's/Women's, and FIBA Rules state how the AP Arrow is initially set and there are three ways. Situation #1: The situation that happens about 99.99% of the time: A2 is the first Player to gain Play Control of the Ball during a Jump Ball or after a Jump Ball has ended. Situation #2: The AP Arrow is set toward Team B's Basket (Team A's Basket under FIBA Rules), when the Ball is placed at the disposal of A1 for the Free Throws for a Common Foul committed before a Player from either Team gained PC of the Ball during a Jump Ball or after a Jump Ball has ended. This Situation can only happen at the start of an Overtime Period. Situation #3: The AP Arrow is set toward Team B's Basket (Team A's Basket under FIBA Rules), when the Ball is placed at the disposal of the Thrower, A1, for any Situation that is not either Situation #1 or Situation #2. MTD, Sr.
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Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn. Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn. Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials Ohio High School Athletic Association Toledo, Ohio |
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*But that ''first and only time" this first year Official has to adjudicate upon this type of occurrence/event could occur in the very first game that they officiate --thus, worthwhile to at least offer our input no?
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I think there are a lot more common occurrences/events to go over with a first year official that would beneficial rather than burden them with a rather rare scenario.
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Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is. |
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I'm a huge advocate for knowing the rules, but I'm also an advocate for incremental knowledge. There are some situations that the veteran official will simply need to handle in the rare case that they pop up. If you're putting two rookies on the same game, then you'll just have to take a chance that they might in fact screw up a ruling on a bigfoot play. I'm ok with that, especially when the ruling is on which team gets the AP to start the game.
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Sprinkles are for winners. Last edited by Adam; Mon Oct 03, 2016 at 03:24pm. Reason: clarity |
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