The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 16, 2016, 11:06am
This IS My Social Life
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at L, T, or C
Posts: 2,379
New '16/17 Casebook Arrived

Just came yesterday. A line-by-line comparison of this year's casebook and last season's:

ERRORS:
The errors in last year's edition (previously poor wording in 3.5.3B and 3.5.4) were corrected.
Error (scrambled wording) remains in last year's 4.19.3E:
A1 is dribbling in the frontcourt. A3 and B4 are in the lane. (a) A3 throws B4 to the floor; (b) B4 throws A3 to the floor. RULING: In (a) illegal and in (b), intentional foul due to excessive contact while the ball is live.

ANNOUNCED CHANGES:
The ones they told us to expect seemed to all be accounted for. The "Comments..." on the revisions on pp.3-4 matched what was printed in the text of the book and they parallel what we were told in advance.

TECHNICAL FOUL SECTIONS REVISION:
Reordered the numbering to reflect rulebook revision numbering. "Ejection" situation moved.

UNANNOUNCED CHANGES:

2.2.4A (Added the underlined words to last year's citation): The score is Team A-62 and Team b-61 when the horn sounds to end the fourth quarter. Prior to the referee's approval of the final score, the coach of Team A directs obscene gestures at the officials. RULING: A technical foul is charged for unsporting behavior and the result of the free throws will determine which team wins or whether an extra period is required.

3.3.2A Grammatical revision: changed the words "...the number for each team member is 'erroneously indicated'" to "the number for each team member is 'incorrect'".

Old 3.5.7A, dealing with compression shorts, cut-off jeans, jewelry, and leg compression sleeves omitted, and old 3.5.7B, dealing with tights or skirt for religious reasons, were omitted . . . in favor of:

New 3.5.7 SITUATION: Substitute A6 is beckoned and enters the court to replace A1. A6 is wearing: (a) a bracelet, (b) an earring covered with tape or (c) earhole spacer. RULING: The items in (a), (b) and (c) are illegal and considered jewelry and A6 will not be allowed to participate while wearing the items. No penalty is involved. A6 simply cannot participate until the illegal items are removed.

Old 9.12B: On the second of two free-throw attempts by A1, the ball is touched outside the cylinder by A2. RULING: The ball became dead immediately when A2 moved into the lane prematurely. Therefore, the goaltending is ignored. The lane violation cancels the free throw and Team B will throw-in from a designated spot outside the end line. (9-1 Penalty 1)

New 9.12B: On the second of two free-throw attempts by A1, the ball is touched outside the cylinder by A2. RULING: No points can be scored A2's actions are ruled a violation. B will be given the ball for a throw-in on the sideline at the free-throw line extended. (9-1 Penalty 1)

Old 10.1.9 stated in the RULING: A technical foul is immediately charged to Team B for failing to have all players return to the court at approximately the same time following a time-out or intermission . . .

Same situation's ruling this year, renumbered as 10.2.5, removes the words "at approximately the same time".


That's all I could find. Anything else worthy of note you uncover, I'd appreciate hearing from you on it.
__________________
Making Every Effort to Be in the Right Place at the Right Time, Looking at the Right Thing to Make the Right Call

Last edited by Freddy; Tue Aug 16, 2016 at 11:28am.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 16, 2016, 12:36pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
..

New 9.12B: On the second of two free-throw attempts by A1, the ball is touched outside the cylinder by A2. RULING: No points can be scored A2's actions are ruled a violation. B will be given the ball for a throw-in on the sideline at the free-throw line extended. (9-1 Penalty 1)

...
So we're going with the NBA mechanic here?
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 16, 2016, 01:17pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
Old 9.12B: On the second of two free-throw attempts by A1, the ball is touched outside the cylinder by A2. RULING: The ball became dead immediately when A2 moved into the lane prematurely. Therefore, the goaltending is ignored. The lane violation cancels the free throw and Team B will throw-in from a designated spot outside the end line. (9-1 Penalty 1)

New 9.12B: On the second of two free-throw attempts by A1, the ball is touched outside the cylinder by A2. RULING: No points can be scored A2's actions are ruled a violation. B will be given the ball for a throw-in on the sideline at the free-throw line extended. (9-1 Penalty 1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
So we're going with the NBA mechanic here?
This would be a rule change, not a mechanic change. The rules designate the location of the throwin. Mechanics designate which official administers it, how, and where the other officials go.

That said, I don't know why or how they could justify this without a corresponding rule change. Both the ball and the location of the infraction were in the key. The nearest spot is the endline.

Since the ball was dead in this play as soon as the violation occurred, the rest of the case about goaltending is not relevant when discussing how to administer the penalty for the lane violation. Are they now saying that all offensive FT violations should be taken to the sideline? If so, what about other violations by the offense that occur in the lane? Are they moved too? If not, what makes them different?
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association

Last edited by Camron Rust; Tue Aug 16, 2016 at 08:20pm.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 16, 2016, 02:31pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
This would be a rule change, not a mechanic change. The rules designate the location of the throwin. Mechanics designate which official administers it, how, and where the other officials go.

That said, I don't know why or how they could justify this without a corresponding rule change. Both the ball and the location of the infraction were in the key. The nearest spot is the endline.

Since the ball was dead in this play as soon as the lane violation occurred, the rest of the case about goaltending is not relevant when discussing how to administer the penalty for the lane violation. Are they now saying that all offensive FT violations should be taken to the sideline? If so, what about other violations by the offense that occur in the lane? Are they moved too? If not, what makes them different?
There would not be a lane violation on the play, but yes, your point still stand.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR

Last edited by Raymond; Wed Aug 17, 2016 at 01:38pm.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 16, 2016, 05:22pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
Am I Right Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Are they now saying that all offensive FT violations should be taken to the sideline?
Like we did thirty-five years ago?

Note: Which sideline?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 16, 2016, 08:19pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
There would not be a lane violation on the play, but yes, your point still does stand.
You are correct in that it isn't a lane violation....correcting that in my post.

I was apparently distracted by the fact that the old case was referring to a lane violation (incorrectly since entry was allowed on the release).

It seems in correcting that part of the case, they also changed the administration of the penalty as if it occurred outside of the lane for some inexplicable reason.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association

Last edited by Camron Rust; Tue Aug 16, 2016 at 08:23pm.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 16, 2016, 08:22pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Like we did thirty-five years ago?

Note: Which sideline?

Without climbing up into the attic, the Ball was taken out-of-bounds on the Sideline at the Free Throw Line Extended when a Dead Ball would go through the Basket immediately following a violation committed by a team in it's Front Court.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio

Last edited by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.; Wed Aug 17, 2016 at 08:09am. Reason: Spelling.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 17, 2016, 07:05am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Without climbing up into the attic, the ball was taken out-of-bounds on the Sideline at the Free Throw Line Extended when a Dead Ball would go through the Basket immediately following a violation committed by a team in it's Front Court.

MTD, Sr.
I don't even know what that means.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 17, 2016, 08:11am
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Without climbing up into the attic, the Ball was taken out-of-bounds on the Sideline at the Free Throw Line Extended when a Dead Ball would go through the Basket immediately following a violation committed by a team in it's Front Court.

MTD, Sr.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
I don't even know what that means.


Two examples:

Play 1: A1 commits a Traveling Violation during a FGA and his attempt goes through the basket.

Play 2: A2 commits a FT Violation during A1's FTA and A1's attempt goes through the basket.

In both Plays, the attempt is canceled because of the Violation. By having the ensuing Throw-in taken on the Sideline rather than the End Line (if that would have been the closet spot to the Violation) indicates that it was a Dead Ball that went through the basket and the score does not count.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 17, 2016, 08:49am
NFHS Official
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,734
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
Just came yesterday. A line-by-line comparison of this year's casebook and last season's:


Old 9.12B: On the second of two free-throw attempts by A1, the ball is touched outside the cylinder by A2. RULING: The ball became dead immediately when A2 moved into the lane prematurely. Therefore, the goaltending is ignored. The lane violation cancels the free throw and Team B will throw-in from a designated spot outside the end line. (9-1 Penalty 1)

New 9.12B: On the second of two free-throw attempts by A1, the ball is touched outside the cylinder by A2. RULING: No points can be scored A2's actions are ruled a violation. B will be given the ball for a throw-in on the sideline at the free-throw line extended. (9-1 Penalty 1)
This doesn't say A2 entered the lane prior to shot being released. So why is it a violation? It would be a goaltending wouldn't it?

Last edited by OKREF; Wed Aug 17, 2016 at 08:52am.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 17, 2016, 09:48am
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
This doesn't say A2 entered the lane prior to shot being released. So why is it a violation? It would be a goaltending wouldn't it?


The Casebook said that A2 committed "a" Violation, and in this instance the Violation was Offensive Goaltending.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 17, 2016, 09:48am
This IS My Social Life
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at L, T, or C
Posts: 2,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
By having the ensuing Throw-in taken on the Sideline rather than the End Line (if that would have been the closet spot to the Violation) indicates that it was a Dead Ball that went through the basket and the score does not count. MTD, Sr.
Combination to memory vault cracked . . . I now vividly recall this distinction . . . back in the late '70's and early '80's this indeed was the approved mechanic. Helped the table know whether the basket counted or not.
Now, I guess, the difference would be shown by whether the administering official signaled for a designated spot throw in or a "you may run the endline if you wish" throw in.
__________________
Making Every Effort to Be in the Right Place at the Right Time, Looking at the Right Thing to Make the Right Call

Last edited by Freddy; Wed Aug 17, 2016 at 10:01am.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 17, 2016, 09:58am
This IS My Social Life
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at L, T, or C
Posts: 2,379
Another "Error Not Corrected":
7.5.7E should refer us to 6-7-7 Exception c, but not Exception 2. There is no such thing as Exception 2 under 6-7-7.
I think.
__________________
Making Every Effort to Be in the Right Place at the Right Time, Looking at the Right Thing to Make the Right Call
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 17, 2016, 10:07am
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
Combination to memory vault cracked . . . I now vividly recall this distinction . . . back in the late '70's and early '80's this indeed was the approved mechanic. Helped the table know whether the basket counted or not.
Now, I guess, the difference would be shown by whether the administering official signaled for a designated spot throw in or a "you may run the endline if you wish" throw in.

It goes back to the 1960s and I pretty sure the 1950s.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed Aug 17, 2016, 11:04am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
This doesn't say A2 entered the lane prior to shot being released. So why is it a violation? It would be a goaltending wouldn't it?
I think the old case was a left over from when players had to wait until the ball hit to enter the lane. It should have been updated when entry was changed to the release but it was missed.

They changed that, but they also changed the throwin spot for the infraction at the same time.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New CP arrived; disappointment IowaMike Baseball 2 Wed May 08, 2013 09:03pm
Reddings 2010 arrived today HLin NC Football 0 Fri May 21, 2010 12:22pm
My shoes finally arrived SAump Basketball 8 Sun Mar 09, 2008 04:51pm
This just arrived. Anything new? greymule Baseball 40 Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:50am
I guess I have finally arrived! Axe Man Football 2 Tue Sep 07, 2004 08:58pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:54am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1