Fed up with association/assignor...

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Rich

Back when I started, people expected to put in 5 or so years at the subvarsity level.

Now people in their first year think they're good enough and wonder what assigners have against them.

As a varsity assigner, there are 25+ year officials I simply WILL NOT USE. I have only had one confront me about it, and it was a very unpleasant experience for me. Didn't change anything, though, as it didn't change the fact that he couldn't run the floor in a 3-person game, even.

Number of years and what the coaches think mean very little to me. My experience seeing coaches ratings (as an assigner) tells me that they have little idea what makes a good official.

Amen.

Not to knock the ability of the official in the OP but when I look back now at what I was ten years after I became IAABO certified I realize I didn't know crap. I'm 25 years on the HS side and only in the past 5-6 do I feel as though I really started to "get it." That coincided with a sharp increase in the quantity - and quality - of games I receive.

The advice to look inside first as opposed to outside is spot on. I was always a rule book guy (contrary to some of my goofs here ) but now I do more. A couple of assignors either suggested or flat out said I needed to lose weight and I've dropped - and kept off - 45+ lbs. since 2013. I study the game more thanks to clips here and watching games at all levels as more of an official instead of a fan. I do not take it for granted that any of my assignors, be they NCAAW or HS, will give me games. My goal is to make it difficult for them *not* to give me games. Once you do that, the level you work and how often you work take care of themselves. Assignors will always default to people who they trust because no one likes agita.

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[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Amen.

Not to knock the ability of the official in the OP but when I look back now at what I was ten years after I became IAABO certified I realize I didn't know crap. I'm 25 years on the HS side and only in the past 5-6 do I feel as though I really started to "get it." That coincided with a sharp increase in the quantity - and quality - of games I receive.

The advice to look inside first as opposed to outside is spot on. I was always a rule book guy (contrary to some of my goofs here ) but now I do more. A couple of assignors either suggested or flat out said I needed to lose weight and I've dropped - and kept off - 45+ lbs. since 2013. I study the game more thanks to clips here and watching games at all levels as more of an official instead of a fan. I do not take it for granted that any of my assignors, be they NCAAW or HS, will give me games. My goal is to make it difficult for them *not* to give me games. Once you do that, the level you work and how often you work take care of themselves. Assignors will always default to people who they trust because no one likes agita.

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Likewise....I thought I knew something at a time long ago. It was only after I learned a lot more that I realized what I didn't know. I'm sure I still have things to learn but now I know that with clarity. It took me several years to get my first regular season girls varsity game (7 IIRC), then a few more to get some at the top classification (boys 4A at the time), but only a few and not the good games. In my 15th year, I finally got a state tournament assignment at the lower levels. Now, 23 years in, I've done quite well, but it didn't come overnight.

[Texas Aggie]

While I agree that some expect it to happen more quickly than it should, you shouldn't have to wait 7 years to get a varsity game if you have even moderate ability. I wouldn't have stuck around that long for my first COLLEGE game, much less HS varsity. But I put in the work -- 100+ game years from year 2-6 or so and college camps starting after my second year. I went to those camps with my ears open and my mouth shut. I realize some younger officials don't do this or don't do enough of this.

With that said, experienced officials are doing a huge disservice to their younger brethren (ladies included) by taking a "our turn" view and all but shutting them out of quality assignments. I'm not talking about deep playoff rounds but regular season and early playoff games that these guys probably won't ever work because they'll quit before given the chance. You, Cameron, as a quality 23 year guy may be a guy who can now work any game your state assigns, you didn't get there by continuously working JV and lower level games. You had to be thrown in the fire at some point.

Every organization worth its salt should have a growth or expectations plan. If gives officials a view of how things, on average, should go and what they need to do to progress within the plan. It won't be absolute and there won't be any guarantees, but if they don't see ANYONE getting the benefit of that person following the plan, you might as well not bother.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

While I agree that some expect it to happen more quickly than it should, you shouldn't have to wait 7 years to get a varsity game if you have even moderate ability. I wouldn't have stuck around that long for my first COLLEGE game, much less HS varsity. But I put in the work -- 100+ game years from year 2-6 or so and college camps starting after my second year. I went to those camps with my ears open and my mouth shut. I realize some younger officials don't do this or don't do enough of this.

I'm curious to how old you are and when you got started.

Today I think 7 years is a long time. When I started it wasn't unusual and people weren't ready to throw in the towel just because they hadn't advanced to that level in 5-7 years. We worked in 2-person crews and there just weren't a ton of varsity slots available and, for the most part, those who held them were veterans who deserved them.

I'm not ashamed to say that I worked my first varsity game in year 7. I was a college student for 2 years, took 3 years off where I worked full time in another geography (and started again working the lowest level stuff -- and only sporadically), and then went back to college for 2 years and rejoined the same association. Not a lot of schools (rural area) and those who did the varsity games were established people, not temporary residents, like me.

It was year 9 before I worked a full varsity schedule, while I was in grad school in yet another geography.

After that I moved 4 more times in 6 years, concentrating on my day job and moving my career forward. I worked varsity schedules in those locations, but it's not like I established a foothold anywhere -- I worked one year in each of two locations, and then 3 years in another, before moving to my current home 14 years ago. Here we go out and get our own games and I worked about 20 varsity games my first season and haven't looked back, working at least 50-60 varsity dates annually.

It's not surprising to me that it took me 27 years in total to work my first state tournament. Next year is year 30 for me, but where I live they consider me a 15-year official.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

While I agree that some expect it to happen more quickly than it should, you shouldn't have to wait 7 years to get a varsity game if you have even moderate ability. I wouldn't have stuck around that long for my first COLLEGE game, much less HS varsity. But I put in the work -- 100+ game years from year 2-6 or so and college camps starting after my second year. I went to those camps with my ears open and my mouth shut. I realize some younger officials don't do this or don't do enough of this.

I am not sure I agree with that overall. It would depend on the staff you are working with or competing against. If no one has retired or died, you very much might not be getting those opportunities. This could be area specific as well, but where I am you might not get a varsity boys game in that time even if you are moderately decent in your ability. Those are harder assignments to get and where most officials I know want to work. Girls basketball honestly they will give those to someone with a pulse much of the time.

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

With that said, experienced officials are doing a huge disservice to their younger brethren (ladies included) by taking a "our turn" view and all but shutting them out of quality assignments. I'm not talking about deep playoff rounds but regular season and early playoff games that these guys probably won't ever work because they'll quit before given the chance. You, Cameron, as a quality 23 year guy may be a guy who can now work any game your state assigns, you didn't get there by continuously working JV and lower level games. You had to be thrown in the fire at some point.

I think it is much more about ability than anything. I do not subscribe to the "waiting your turn" position. I think you have to at the very least have the ability to handle the level. The term I heard best is "We are looking for Referees not U2s." If you can display that you can handle the situations in some of the most difficult circumstances, you will get those opportunities in my experience. But sometimes that takes time because working a prelim game or a freshman game is very different than working a varsity game that the outcome determines the conference. Coaches are not as forgiving for mistakes at the varsity level as they might be at the freshman level. And what are assignors trying to do ultimately? Keep their jobs. So they are not going to just take a risk on someone to handle themselves over someone that has proven their mettle.

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Every organization worth its salt should have a growth or expectations plan. If gives officials a view of how things, on average, should go and what they need to do to progress within the plan. It won't be absolute and there won't be any guarantees, but if they don't see ANYONE getting the benefit of that person following the plan, you might as well not bother.

At least here organizations do not assign varsity games. Our job is only to train you and lead you to the right people. It is ultimately up to you do what the assignors want and accept what they give you or decide what you do not want to work. Some organizations do a better job, but ultimately it is on you as an official to take the knowledge and run with it.

Peace

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

While I agree that some expect it to happen more quickly than it should, you shouldn't have to wait 7 years to get a varsity game if you have even moderate ability. I wouldn't have stuck around that long for my first COLLEGE game, much less HS varsity. But I put in the work -- 100+ game years from year 2-6 or so and college camps starting after my second year. I went to those camps with my ears open and my mouth shut. I realize some younger officials don't do this or don't do enough of this.

With that said, experienced officials are doing a huge disservice to their younger brethren (ladies included) by taking a "our turn" view and all but shutting them out of quality assignments. I'm not talking about deep playoff rounds but regular season and early playoff games that these guys probably won't ever work because they'll quit before given the chance. You, Cameron, as a quality 23 year guy may be a guy who can now work any game your state assigns, you didn't get there by continuously working JV and lower level games. You had to be thrown in the fire at some point.

Every organization worth its salt should have a growth or expectations plan. If gives officials a view of how things, on average, should go and what they need to do to progress within the plan. It won't be absolute and there won't be any guarantees, but if they don't see ANYONE getting the benefit of that person following the plan, you might as well not bother.

Putting a time limit on when officials should or should not do certain games is a recipe for disaster. The assigner would be fired in a nano-second for someone more competent, at least in a decent area. I'm aware there are horrible, even worthless, assigners out there, but I've yet to meet one so I assume they are rare. Just because your ears are open doesn't mean your retaining the good information and dumping the bad. I also, from my very first game, have never kept my mouth shut. Social skills play a massive role, but questioning clinicians, assigners, vets, fellow officials, etc, is a major part of how I grew so fast. As far as how many games you've worked, I can learn more in one game then others can in 100. Officials improvement and better games is far more reliant on them then they realize, especially the officials who complain why they aren't doing a, b, and c games. This mind-set is backwards and is probably an annoyance to almost any assigner.

I've never understood the concept of throwing an official into the fire. Either you're ready or you're not and I'm not going to risk a game blowing up in my face for assigning an official who thinks they're ready because on paper they've been around forever and done a lot of games. I don't care if you've been around for three years or twenty, some are ready and some aren't. Some officials mature after a few years and are ready for NCAA games and some won't be ready after thirty years.

While I think it's important for associations to have plans to improve officials, I entirely disagree with your final paragraph. I didn't care for my associations plan and just did my own. This shouldn't be some awkward parenting system and people can either learn to succeed or not. Who should be worth their salt is an official, not the association. Taking it backwards is why the vast majority of officials just aren't any good. If I had to rely on someone else' program I would never have started officiating in the first place. There are ways to boost your career forward, and blaming everyone else isn't it. In fact, it's the very reason people never move or start to move in the wrong direction.

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

I wouldn't have stuck around that long for my first COLLEGE game, much less HS varsity.

So you work college but haven't worked a Varsity HS game yet?

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by AremRed

So you work college but haven't worked a Varsity HS game yet?

So what? It's not uncommon at all, especially in states like mine where you pretty much can't get a single varsity game until your fifth year.

Originally Posted by SC Official

So what? It's not uncommon at all, especially in states like mine where you pretty much can't get a single varsity game until your fifth year.

No, I am asking to clarify because the way he wrote it is ambiguous whether he actually works college or not.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

Then why do you do it?

Because I enjoy it.

Originally Posted by AremRed

No, I am asking to clarify because the way he wrote it is ambiguous whether he actually works college or not.

Gotcha.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SC Official

It's not uncommon at all, especially in states like mine where you pretty much can't get a single varsity game until your fifth year.

Here, in my little corner of Connecticut, under our old rating/ranking system, it was impossible to work a high school varsity game until one's fifth year, with no chance of getting a full varsity schedule until one's eighth year. That changed with our new rating system, with no minimum experience requirements. If the observation team believes that one is good enough to move up, one moves up, whether it's one's second year, or twentieth year.

We've had several college officials (mostly D-III), with no high school varsity games under their belts.